To be amazed they've released Mairead Philpott?

[MarylinMonrue]

After serving half her sentence for the arson attack? Apparently even a source from the prison was a shocked at the leniency and the fact she's going to get a new identity and protection. Six children in that fire - is there such a thing as justice in this country anymore?

@Pumperthepumper odd that while seeing her as a victim , you want her punished.

I don't necessarily want her punished but then I don't agree with jail as a punishment. I think she's dangerous and should not be able to set foot on the streets.

She clearly has some level of learning need and was the victim of an abusive husband. I don’t condone her actions but I don’t think she odd threat to society

@Grapewrath

She clearly has some level of learning need and was the victim of an abusive husband. I don’t condone her actions but I don’t think she odd threat to society

She. Allowed. Her. Children. To. Be. Murdered.

Which part of that is not a danger to society ?

[quote Wheresmykimchi]@Pumperthepumper odd that while seeing her as a victim , you want her punished.

I don't necessarily want her punished but then I don't agree with jail as a punishment. I think she's dangerous and should not be able to set foot on the streets.[/quote]
Why is that odd? I’ve said several times that she still committed a crime, she still played a part in the murder of her children.

You seem to have a weird idea of what a victim is - being a victim doesn’t absolve you from any wrongdoing. You can still be a victim if you do something terrible.

What’s your solution then - no jail, no punishment, but not able to set foot on the streets? Where’s that mystery middle space between jail and freedom?

@Besswess88
"I imagine if she got pregnant again any children would be removed from her at birth."

It would depend on the father. When I worked in CP we had a case of a Mother who allowed her child to be killed. This was after allowing her first child to be left permanently disabled. They were two different men. She's gone on to parent successfully, mainly thanks to her Partner and her determination to get it right.

If the father took residency, she would get supervised contact, which could be built up.

Her mental health issues are against her as well. A live birth isn't guaranteed over 40, so hopefully it won't happen.

@Pumperthepumper I said I don't agree with jail as a punishment.

I do agree with it as a means to keep society safe.

[quote Ponoka7]@Besswess88
"I imagine if she got pregnant again any children would be removed from her at birth."

It would depend on the father. When I worked in CP we had a case of a Mother who allowed her child to be killed. This was after allowing her first child to be left permanently disabled. They were two different men. She's gone on to parent successfully, mainly thanks to her Partner and her determination to get it right.

If the father took residency, she would get supervised contact, which could be built up.

Her mental health issues are against her as well. A live birth isn't guaranteed over 40, so hopefully it won't happen.[/quote]

[quote Wheresmykimchi]@Pumperthepumper I said I don't agree with jail as a punishment.

I do agree with it as a means to keep society safe.[/quote]
And what harm is she to society in general?

@Grapewrath

She clearly has some level of learning need and was the victim of an abusive husband. I don’t condone her actions but I don’t think she odd threat to society

Only a threat to her own flesh and blood?

I don't believe she should be free.

Taking the opposite viewpoint here of posters saying she was abused and didn't have capacity with her learning difficulties - she should be in care rather than free to roam the streets as gawd knows who.

@Wheresmykimchi, she's a danger to anything who relies on her for care. That doesn't make her a danger to society.

This case is so shocking because so many children were involved and the family were notorious. People walk out of prison for killing children after a few years, frequently.

@Pumperthepumper

You still don't seem to accept that she is dangerous so let's go by your logic. You claim that her IQ and abuse means she is vulnerable and cannot make decisions for herself. It is therefore likely that she will meet a similar type of man.

If she was complicit in and allowed the murder of her own children , do you not think it is likely she would cover up the crimes of someone else a la Maxine Carr? She's done the worst possible so I am honestly gobsmacked that anyone thinks she is not dangerous.

[quote Ponoka7]@Wheresmykimchi, she's a danger to anything who relies on her for care. That doesn't make her a danger to society.

This case is so shocking because so many children were involved and the family were notorious. People walk out of prison for killing children after a few years, frequently.[/quote]
Oh as long as she's only q danger to her own children. That's alright

That may well be the case re other people walking but that doesn't make it right ..

I think she was failed, I also think inspite of her learning and other difficulties she knows right from wrong. Surely some primitive feeling would kick in, to protect your young.

Her mental health issues are against her as well. A live birth isn't guaranteed over 40, so hopefully it won't happen

You know, it's almost as if you are saying that you hope if she does become pregnant again, the baby dies...

[quote Wheresmykimchi]@Pumperthepumper

You still don't seem to accept that she is dangerous so let's go by your logic. You claim that her IQ and abuse means she is vulnerable and cannot make decisions for herself. It is therefore likely that she will meet a similar type of man.

If she was complicit in and allowed the murder of her own children , do you not think it is likely she would cover up the crimes of someone else a la Maxine Carr? She's done the worst possible so I am honestly gobsmacked that anyone thinks she is not dangerous.[/quote]
Dangerous to who though? Who is she a danger to?

I’m also going to assume there were substance abuse issues in the relationship. I suspect her real feelings were deadened. But that isn’t an excuse.

Taking the opposite viewpoint here of posters saying she was abused and didn't have capacity with her learning difficulties - she should be in care rather than free to roam the streets as gawd knows who.

I think that probably is true though. I don’t know the extent of her learning difficulties and I don’t know what care is open to adult women with learning difficulties, but I think definitely being under some kind of official care is probably a good thing.

@Pumperthepumper

Any future children.
Anyone elses children in her care
Anyone who happens to be any kind of victim to whichever man she takes up with next
Anyone injured or killed as a result of the next idiotic plot masterminded by someone she is with
Herself - as if and when she is outed.

I would like to read the serious case review. Is it available to the public?

@Pumperthepumper

Taking the opposite viewpoint here of posters saying she was abused and didn't have capacity with her learning difficulties - she should be in care rather than free to roam the streets as gawd knows who.

I think that probably is true though. I don’t know the extent of her learning difficulties and I don’t know what care is open to adult women with learning difficulties, but I think definitely being under some kind of official care is probably a good thing.

Mental health resources are stretched in this country. The suicide rate is sky high . She murdered her children. She should be left in prison im not saying forever but certainly for an amount of time. I cannot comprehend people thinking she should be let out and supported. She killed her children!

If she has the next half of her sentence on licence, then I assume that she will be carefully monitored, & that this will include some aspects of her fertility (e.g. contraceptive implant) to both protect her as a vulnerable adult & to reduce the future risk of being an insufficient parent.

Should she become pregnant & carry to term, it is highly likely any child will be removed from her for their own protection.

Any hapless"family" she tried to stay with and baby sit?

After what I read about Mick, I am amazed that she was not deemed to be under coercive control. Her circumstances were awful, she was vulnerable and it had so many hallmarks of abuse.

But the Courts found otherwise, and they will have heard more than I have read. And of course having mild learning difficulties does not in itself make you incapable of distinguishing right from wrong (though it's quite likely it makes you more vulnerable to control, and less able to navigate a way out)

What I don't understand is why someone like Mick was not sent down for much longer much earlier in his history of violence to women

Xposted with @Ponoka7.

Does she actually have diagnosed learning disabilities or just a low IQ ? Because there is a difference my oldest son was diagnosed as having borderline learning disabilities by an educational psychologist ,he absolutely knows right from wrong ,he isn't academic and won't be getting great GCSE grades ,but he's in mainstream school with no extra help he will be able to work and live independently and
I have seen a few documentaries about this and whilst Mick orchestrated this she went along with it ,her own Father was saying she was having sex with Mick whilst the oldest boy was in ICU ,and witnessees in the pub a few days after the fire say her actions where far from a grieving mother,I don't doubt Mick manipulated her ,but she's responsible for her own actions