To think I wasn't being a dick?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

I split up with exH 2 years ago, we have 2DC aged 4&8 and when they're at ex's they still see their cousins and aunty, my exSIL. ExSIL has only contacted me once since the split - to remind me to get her son (DN) a present (I refused said it was Ex's job now) - never checked to see I was ok after her brother had an affair. Anyway, her DS is 7 and over lockdown I allowed DD (8) to use my phone to face call him and play Minecraft with him at the same time on my iPad.

DN has his own iPad but he uses his parent's Facebook messenger accounts to face call DD.

Now we're back to normality, and school, I let DD have 3 hours in total on a weekend, split however she likes from Friday evening to Sunday. She used most of it on Friday after school, so that's her time used up. But DN has called (which came through to both my phone and iPad) 23 times. I didn't answer either as they've been in another room most of the day. I also had nuermous messenger messages like "DD call me now" and "Why aren't you calling you're upsetting me". I did reply sorry DD won't be having screen time today, but he still kept calling.

Anyway, I texted exSIL on the number I still have for her and said "Hi it's Glummy, can you stop DN from calling my messenger please, DD isn't allowed her iPad today and he's called 23 times today". She replied saying "OK but there's no need to be a dick about it he just misses DD that's all" I don't think what I said was dickish at all. I'm tempted to reply and ask what she means. I haven't yet, but it's really bothered me. There's no backstory we got on fine when I was married to her brother but she firmly nailed her colours to the mast when we split (except when she wanted her son to get a birthday present, apparently that was still my job and if left to ex he wouldn't have got one )

[quote ExhaustedFlamingo]@RosyPickle I think you’ve hit the nail on your head with the last comment - OP doesn’t see DN as anything to do with her.

I fight fiercely for feminism but I also agree, this isn’t a hill I’d die on. I’d buy a gift so the DN doesn’t miss out. You’re not covering for the ex, it’s because the DN is the cousin to your own DC. Just like I’d buy one of their school friends a gift. I know the OP sees this as pandering to kids but I’d rather he didn’t miss out. I don’t see it as sacrificing feminist views because you’re not accepting it’s your role - you’re doing it out of kindness so a child doesn’t lose out. Not every action in life has to be aggressively idealistic. Just because he wouldn’t do it in return is kind of irrelevant - it’s an action to take because you care whether the DN gets a gift. That would be my reasoning. But is it OP’s duty? No. But it would still be a kind thing to do. I set a lot of store by kindness.[/quote]
I'll ask again:

At what point are men held responsible for doing simple things like buying their own family presents?

If he misses out he misses out - he'll live. I'm not buying a present because some weird sexist idea of feeling guilty because my ex is right and lazy. Some hills are worth "dying on" - and not continuing to do the wife work for exH because, like in marriage, he is too useless and selfish to buy presents himself, is one.

If you'd be a doormat, good for you - that's not me. And it's not something a man would EVER be expected to do. It's ONLY ever women who are expected to "do the nice thing" .

And buying a gift for his family because he won't, is 100% covering for him.

To 'be the better/bigger person'. . .

And I don't see it as pandering to DN, I see it as pandering to exH

This thread is crazy

'Mother limits her child's screen time and requests that another child is asked to stop repeatedly calling as her DD isnt available at present' hardly seems contraversial...

But then a thread asking for book recommendations for an elderly mother turned into a bunfight the other day so it seems mumsnetters can get angry quite easily

But then a thread asking for book recommendations for an elderly mother turned into a bunfight the other day so it seems mumsnetters can get angry quite easily

PMSL, you're not wrong. . .

Can’t believe it’s taken 21 pages until the Be Kind brigade turned up. Maybe the SIL should also have shown some kindness and checked in that her son’s aunty (yes the relationship works both ways) was ok after her brother tore her life apart.

OP - yes he should know. Is it sexist that he’s not expected to know but you are? Yes.

Are there still rampantly sexist expectations for women? Also yes.

Would I view my DC’s cousin as part of my family too? Yes.

Would I buy DN a gift from my DC? Yes - because his feelings are more important than point-scoring about feminism.

However, I think you’re feeling particularly neutral about DN because your ex was such a giant shit and ex-SIL gave no support. I would probably feel the same - if I’m being honest. As much as I think you should be the bigger person, if my ex had done what yours did I think I’d really struggle to rise above it and be as kind to DN as he deserves.

@Glummy, that's entirely your projection tbh so again, there's not much I can say. We see family ties differently which I guess is valid but the other stuff is literally you putting a narrative onto my words which isn't actually there. You think the expectation of a gift is somehow part of sexist expectations and assume I'd never think a man should do the same in reverse. I just think it's family and a youngish child who's close to your daughter, his cousin. I wouldn't begrudge a gift on feminist grounds, but I can see your logic I guess. Anyway, I'm off to bed. Hope things work out ok for you.

I bet not one person here has a partner who keeps in touch and buys gifts for his ex wife’s sibling’s children.

I just find myself getting very ornery in the face of a sense of entitlement, whether that would be SIL demanding her cheated on ex-SIL buy her cherub a gift, or whether that was her ex-sil's child demanding her daughter's attention and to entertain him.

Both scenarios make my middle finger twitch.

@Poppypopi80

but luckily he agrees that DD is under no on obligation to have her screen time with him).

This is the only part I feel is Dickish. It’s a bit much they are kids FGS.

It’s because they are kids that this is a good lesson

Women and girls don’t exist to fix things and entertain men/boys

Would I buy DN a gift from my DC? Yes - because his feelings are more important than point-scoring about feminism.

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Even if they are, it doesn't mean the obligation to undo ex's fuck up is on me and DN's feelings aren't my responsibility, they are ex's. So he should be the one to get the gift.

However, I think you’re feeling particularly neutral about DN because your ex was such a giant shit and ex-SIL gave no support. I would probably feel the same - if I’m being honest. As much as I think you should be the bigger person, if my ex had done what yours did I think I’d really struggle to rise above it and be as kind to DN as he deserves.

I'm not a total monster, I don't take my marriage issues out on children. I care for DN's well-being but I don't make it my responsibility especially when those around him - his parents, his uncle - should be doing better for him.

Ex has a 20yo niece ive stayed in touch with, sent her a Next voucher as a housewarming gift. But she's an adult who again has been kind and supportive. In a couple of years time, DN (who was 5 when we split) wouldn't know me if I walked passed him in the street. It's a relationship where there really isn't any point putting so much effort in - whereas 20yo niece I knew since she was small, she's made the effort when we split and I make the effort back.

@whycantweallbemoretolerant

I think you've been reasonable throughout. However, given their ages I think a single 5 minute call from your daughter to her cousin to explain why she's offline might have been both kinder to the kids and not led to the 23 missed calls. Sure, she knew the rules, but a quick call to explain that to her cousin would have emphasised them to her and drawn a line under it for the weekend rather than making her (potentially) be upset with you.

Meanwhile the miserable cheating ex carries on with his life oblivious...

....but they didn’t know about the call til the 22nd one! Then a message was sent!

Jeepers.

It is not this childs job to manage her male cousins emotions

It is however, his parent's job to monitor and be aware of his online activity, including sending 23 calls. Which they weren't. Bit of a worry, really, isn't it? I'd say that kind of inattention and unawareness from his parents is far more likely to be detrimental to DN in the long run. And I'm afraid that the responsibility of parenting your child cannot be schuffed off onto ex-aunty and cousin. . .

@Womencanlift - I’m not apologising for saying being kind to a child is something I think is important. I don’t use the be kind hashtag because it’s trite bullshit. Just because idiots use that for all sorts of nonsense doesn’t mean the idea is wrong. And if you read my comment I’ve already said the ex-SIL is a shitbag who showed no concern.

OP - you summed it up in that comment of yours “I don’t see it as pandering to DN I see it as pandering to ex”. I totally understand that. And I think I would feel the same, despite what I think “should” happen....

I’m not a doormat in any sense but there is a wider picture. Morally, the kinder thing to do is to ensure your DN doesn’t miss out even if it’s not technically your responsibility. My mum is appalling with my DC’s gifts and I pick up the slack as I don’t want them to miss out. I let her have the credit as their feelings are more important than me getting credit. In the grand scheme it’s meaningless. You care more about point scoring than your DN’s feelings. But, although I don’t think that’s the right approach, would I do the same? Given how your ex behaved, probably 😂😂 I’d want everyone to see what a shit he is, and you buying a gift covers that up. I still don’t think it’s morally right - but I can see why you feel the way you do.

I guess there's a difference of perception of what is 'moral'.

I don't think it is 'moral' for people to perform the action (or not) and not feel the consequence.

I don't think it's moral to try to protect children at all costs. This kid has a mother who doesn't pay attention to him, doesn't monitor what he's doing, or guide him to behave appropriately, and he has an uncle who imploded his family and certainly doesn't care enough about his nephew to buy him a present. This is not going to be papered over by his ex-aunt buying him a pity pressie.

Material goods it seems he does not lack.

I’m not apologising for saying being kind to a child is something I think is important

But refusing to buy them a present when it's someone else's job entirely isn't unkind. It's just being normal. Not jumping the moment they call and interrupting family time to answer their call isn't unkind.

What IS unkind is refusing to buy your nephew a present because your wife isn't around anymore to do it. What IS unkind is either allowing your child to constantly call a loved cousin despite the fact they aren't picking up, or being so useless that you don't even notice they do this - both situations leading to an upset little boy who feels neglected.

I'm not the unkind one here.

You care more about point scoring than your DN’s feelings

I don't - I simply refuse for it to carry on being "my" job when it should always have been ex's job.

Really if I'd been less of a doormat in the first place and said "it's your responsibility to buy your family present, and me mine", there'd be no expectation for me to do it (yeah right, of course they would but you see my point).

My mum also gets crap gifts and bow we all just laugh about what silly thing Gran has bought this year last year she got my DS a Pearl necklace WTF is that about

This DN sees his uncle and cousins EOW in person why is it the OP job to maintain and protect the DN from any hurt??

The op is happy to allow her Dd to use all her gaming screen time with her cousin??? If her DD had a 6 hour limit and had used it with her cousin would the op still be unreasonable???

Some of the accusations against op are laughable clearly men have zero responsibility for anything or anyone.

@WiddlinDiddlin

How is this a 20 page thread where seemingly no ones picked up that the DN here thinks it is ok to 'blow up' someones phone with constant calls and either his parents are unaware that he thinks this or are aware and have done nothing about it?

This is a tactic used to bully and harrass people into responding and whilst he may at his age, be unaware that it is inappropriate, it suggests he thinks his cousin SHOULD respond purely because HE demands it.. if left to continue thinking like this, he's going grow up thinking he can treat everyone like this.. just bombard them til they give in.

OP you don't sound like a dick to me in the slightest, and well done for protecting your DD from being harrassed by someone who should be being taught better and evidently isn't.

Er... loads of us have said the same if you read the thread.

I said a few pages back that the SiL has more to worry about than whether someone responds to the golden child, if she is so unaware who her son is calling and what he is getting up to.

@RandomMess

This DN sees his uncle and cousins EOW in person why is it the OP job to maintain and protect the DN from any hurt??

The op is happy to allow her Dd to use all her gaming screen time with her cousin??? If her DD had a 6 hour limit and had used it with her cousin would the op still be unreasonable???

Some of the accusations against op are laughable clearly men have zero responsibility for anything or anyone.

Can we have one thread without someone making blanket claims about men and women?

[quote ExhaustedFlamingo]@Womencanlift - I’m not apologising for saying being kind to a child is something I think is important. I don’t use the be kind hashtag because it’s trite bullshit. Just because idiots use that for all sorts of nonsense doesn’t mean the idea is wrong. And if you read my comment I’ve already said the ex-SIL is a shitbag who showed no concern.

OP - you summed it up in that comment of yours “I don’t see it as pandering to DN I see it as pandering to ex”. I totally understand that. And I think I would feel the same, despite what I think “should” happen....

I’m not a doormat in any sense but there is a wider picture. Morally, the kinder thing to do is to ensure your DN doesn’t miss out even if it’s not technically your responsibility. My mum is appalling with my DC’s gifts and I pick up the slack as I don’t want them to miss out. I let her have the credit as their feelings are more important than me getting credit. In the grand scheme it’s meaningless. You care more about point scoring than your DN’s feelings. But, although I don’t think that’s the right approach, would I do the same? Given how your ex behaved, probably 😂😂 I’d want everyone to see what a shit he is, and you buying a gift covers that up. I still don’t think it’s morally right - but I can see why you feel the way you do.[/quote]
I agree.

Again, op, I applaud you for standing your ground and taking no shit. Good on you, and am still puzzled by posters who think otherwise!

I don’t think it would hurt to give her an extra hour to spend specifically on Minecraft over the weekend

But should she then owe that time to her cousin?

Because thats the issue. Another child feels they have the right to control her time. The amount of people here seemingly agreeing is insane to me.

My children do not owe their time to their friends or extended family,