To think I wasn't being a dick?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

I split up with exH 2 years ago, we have 2DC aged 4&8 and when they're at ex's they still see their cousins and aunty, my exSIL. ExSIL has only contacted me once since the split - to remind me to get her son (DN) a present (I refused said it was Ex's job now) - never checked to see I was ok after her brother had an affair. Anyway, her DS is 7 and over lockdown I allowed DD (8) to use my phone to face call him and play Minecraft with him at the same time on my iPad.

DN has his own iPad but he uses his parent's Facebook messenger accounts to face call DD.

Now we're back to normality, and school, I let DD have 3 hours in total on a weekend, split however she likes from Friday evening to Sunday. She used most of it on Friday after school, so that's her time used up. But DN has called (which came through to both my phone and iPad) 23 times. I didn't answer either as they've been in another room most of the day. I also had nuermous messenger messages like "DD call me now" and "Why aren't you calling you're upsetting me". I did reply sorry DD won't be having screen time today, but he still kept calling.

Anyway, I texted exSIL on the number I still have for her and said "Hi it's Glummy, can you stop DN from calling my messenger please, DD isn't allowed her iPad today and he's called 23 times today". She replied saying "OK but there's no need to be a dick about it he just misses DD that's all" I don't think what I said was dickish at all. I'm tempted to reply and ask what she means. I haven't yet, but it's really bothered me. There's no backstory we got on fine when I was married to her brother but she firmly nailed her colours to the mast when we split (except when she wanted her son to get a birthday present, apparently that was still my job and if left to ex he wouldn't have got one )

I would message her back saying: you might want to reread your response as it applies to one of us and it's not me. Don't you think it's time the adults in your family learned to treat people with respect because I'd say enough damage has been done and in case you haven't noticed, unlike your DB I don't take anything lying down.

YANBU

I think you've been reasonable throughout. However, given their ages I think a single 5 minute call from your daughter to her cousin to explain why she's offline might have been both kinder to the kids and not led to the 23 missed calls.
Sure, she knew the rules, but a quick call to explain that to her cousin would have emphasised them to her and drawn a line under it for the weekend rather than making her (potentially) be upset with you.

Meanwhile the miserable cheating ex carries on with his life oblivious...

No you’re definitely not a dick. The dicks are the people who are treated like tiny royalty, who do whatever they want and are given whatever they want as an act of ‘love’. Your exSIL is a dick.

I think you’ve both been unreasonable in different ways.

Not unreasonable to watch your film without interruption. Phones etc shouldn’t intrude on your life.

You are unreasonable for thinking any attempt at kindness is simpering. I am very blunt myself and don’t hun it up, nor would I with someone who failed to show any support to me in the circumstances you describe. However I think your attitude to your DN comes across as fairly uncaring.

Personally, yes I think three hours of screen time across a whole weekend is excessively low. It seems to be more about you getting the most out of your time rather than what DD enjoys. Not saying she doesn’t enjoy how your weekends are spent but in all your replies you talk about what you want to get out of the weekend. Minecraft has lots of educational benefits - I’d be happy to have let her schedule some time in with DN at a time which didn’t impact your family.

I don’t have screen limits for my DC. Some weeks they’ve got bags of energy and up for doing all sorts of things. Other times, they’re tired and need to recharge their batteries and chill a bit more. A flexible approach really works for us. Obviously we have different parenting approaches. I think if you can’t find an hour across the whole weekend that your DD could have spent playing Minecraft with your DN, it’s a shame. I’d maybe consider splitting the screen time into Minecraft and YouTube as they’re very different activities. Chatting and playing Minecraft is beneficial in many ways, YouTube not so much.

Your exSIL sounds like a massive arse. Overly dramatic and demanding. I’d not care too much if she was upset.

I do think you’re a bit unreasonable for not seeming to care too much about your DN. as you said, different families have different setups but you seem to have switched off entirely from caring about him at all - and at the end of the day, he’s just a child too.

Also, whether this is accurate or not, you do come across as very fixed and rigid in your views. It’s great to be self-confident but it’s also healthy to challenge your own views rather than get defensive and refuse to accept that there could be another solution.

@whycantweallbemoretolerant given the ages!? Look giving that they are small and these are their formative years it seems like the VERY time to teach them they can’t have exactly what they want when they want it. That they will be ok . The idea that the only way to appease a young child is to give them what they want seems like bonkers. The OP is a great parent for standing her ground and she explaining the situation.

I guess my perception is a bit skewed, from having been expected to be a doting aunty at the grand old age of seven, but with many of my DN's, I can take or leave them - and I don't expect my siblings or DH's siblings to do anything other than affect a polite interest in my kids. And I'm afraid that any child in the family that rang 23 times would be firmly told that was unacceptable - and I'd be wondering just how disengaged the child's actual parent was, that they had not noticed their child's inappropriate behaviour?

@ExhaustedFlamingo

I think you’ve both been unreasonable in different ways.

Not unreasonable to watch your film without interruption. Phones etc shouldn’t intrude on your life.

You are unreasonable for thinking any attempt at kindness is simpering. I am very blunt myself and don’t hun it up, nor would I with someone who failed to show any support to me in the circumstances you describe. However I think your attitude to your DN comes across as fairly uncaring.

Personally, yes I think three hours of screen time across a whole weekend is excessively low. It seems to be more about you getting the most out of your time rather than what DD enjoys. Not saying she doesn’t enjoy how your weekends are spent but in all your replies you talk about what you want to get out of the weekend. Minecraft has lots of educational benefits - I’d be happy to have let her schedule some time in with DN at a time which didn’t impact your family.

I don’t have screen limits for my DC. Some weeks they’ve got bags of energy and up for doing all sorts of things. Other times, they’re tired and need to recharge their batteries and chill a bit more. A flexible approach really works for us. Obviously we have different parenting approaches. I think if you can’t find an hour across the whole weekend that your DD could have spent playing Minecraft with your DN, it’s a shame. I’d maybe consider splitting the screen time into Minecraft and YouTube as they’re very different activities. Chatting and playing Minecraft is beneficial in many ways, YouTube not so much.

Your exSIL sounds like a massive arse. Overly dramatic and demanding. I’d not care too much if she was upset.

I do think you’re a bit unreasonable for not seeming to care too much about your DN. as you said, different families have different setups but you seem to have switched off entirely from caring about him at all - and at the end of the day, he’s just a child too.

Also, whether this is accurate or not, you do come across as very fixed and rigid in your views. It’s great to be self-confident but it’s also healthy to challenge your own views rather than get defensive and refuse to accept that there could be another solution.

I completely agree with your post and you put it much more eloquently than I.

I do think it's clear OP is struggling post affair though and rightly wants to spend time with her child. I agree though that the manner doesn't necessarily suggest that.

I think the gaming and chatting thing is a nice, low pressure way for them to maintain contact and would probably be a bit more flexible (eg let them have an extra half hour) if both wanted to. It's not your fault or your DD's that he called 23 times especially since you didn't see the notifications, however, he's only a young child and kids don't always self-regulate well so I feel a bit sad for him in that situation. He does clearly need to learn that multiple calls is not good and also that a lack of response doesn't mean the sky has fallen in or someone no longer likes you. I'd wonder why he did call so many times - is he perhaps having a hard time?

Your message to your exSIL wasn't particularly nicely worded imo and I don't see anything wrong with being sensitive to someone's feelings. Baldly stating that her DS called 23 times is a bit of an unkind way to put it. I'd have asked if he was ok and said we didn't see the messages until now but can you let him know that DD will catch up with him soon and can't always respond straight away as her screen time is limited and we put the devices away.

As far as the Christmas presents are concerned, that was mean. He's still your DD's cousin and is a child. He might even still see you as his auntie surely - you don't divorce children do you? Regardless of that, I can imagine he could have been a bit hurt not to have received a present. I don't recall if you said whether exSIL got anything for your DD? If not then I guess that's a different matter but I would prioritise making a child feel included at Christmas over taking a stand about 'wife work', any day. It just seems petty to me.

@ExhaustedFlamingo screen time restriction works well for us, I don't think an hour a day for gaming age 8 is excessively low at all and if I have unlimited access she's probably want to do nothing else. If your kids are grand after unlimited gaming then more power to you, but my DD ends up behaving terribly which is part of the reason why I limit.

Yes I do think of me when I have them for my weekends. Nothing wrong with that, I'm a human being to and my needs are important. Also, they actually like spending time with me and enjoy the things we do.

I'm not uncaring towards DN, I'm just not pandering to a child who I know will have emotions running high, and using my DD to placate his emotions and disappoint his expectations, especially in the middle of a film. The only people who have shown a lack of care to DN are his parents, in this situation.

I also agree with @mbosnz I can take or leave my nieces and nephews, they aren't an extension of my children and I don't feel any responsibility done their well-being, I'm there to be fun aunty Glummy when I do see them, and I facilitate relationships between them and my DC. Beyond that, I don't need or want to do any more, and I don't expect any more from my siblings either.

@Wheresmykimchi I'm honestly not struggling, I'm past it all and so much happier now than when I was married. I am still angry about a lot of things, but meh, that's life, I'll get over it and I certainly don't push that anger into my kids.

I would have said "can you let DN know that DD can't play with him today? He seems upset that she isn't online." And left out the 23 times bit. It does sound like you have some bitterness towards the XSIL that you were working out by being blunt where, if you weren't already pissed at her, you might have been sensitive. And she clearly has residual bitterness, or she would not have escalated a bit of mild passive aggression into active aggression with her (totally uncalled for) remark.

As far as the Christmas presents are concerned, that was mean. He's still your DD's cousin and is a child. He might even still see you as his auntie surely - you don't divorce children do you? Regardless of that, I can imagine he could have been a bit hurt not to have received a present. I don't recall if you said whether exSIL got anything for your DD? If not then I guess that's a different matter but I would prioritise making a child feel included at Christmas over taking a stand about 'wife work', any day. It just seems petty to me.

It's not my job to buy my exH's family presents. I did it when we were together because, like with many wives, it ended up just falling to me, but it was a favour to him then so why should I carry it on? Why not exH? He's a big oh, he earns money and has a brain, he can do it himself but doesn't because he's right and lazy. So why the hell does it then fall to me?

Yes SIL has got my kids presents but they're still her family, they're her brothers children.her family are not my family. Don't you think it's up to my ex to return the favour @RosyPickle ?

And if I stop buying my siblings kid's presents will you think my exH is mean for not taking over that duty?

@Poppypopi80

So does your Exsil expect a present? Did she outrightly txt you asking for a present for DN? Because even on normal terms you wouldn’t usually request presents...

I do understand how it must feel that your ex family haven’t checked in it’s shitty of them. I would however still try and keep the cousin bond going because it’s nothing to do with them.

@Poppypopi80 I will try and find the AIBU thread I posted at the time, but yes she outright text me basically saying that exH is useless and probably won't get round to getting her DS a birthday present so could I make sure he gets one from my kids.

I said no, that's exH's job now.

ExILs weren't impressed.

Seriously how can people - including one on this thread - not see how utterly horrifically sexist it is to expect an ex wife to do this? Should I do it until I'm 80 when we've been divorced 45 years? Or when he gets remarried and the new wife is in charge?

At what fucking point do we expect MEN to do basic things like get a present for THEIR family member?

And exH hasn't got any of his family any presents since we split. I was amazed when he bought the DC presents. He's not skint at all but he is mean with his money.

How is the solution to this "ExWife should buy presents"?

ExMIL has been great since our split she's helped me move house, she's given exH a short shrift when he needed it and she's just listened and comforted me. I get her a present from me and the kids because she's a good person and deserves it, and it's from me mainly, rather than "from the kids on behalf of DH".

It would have been lovely to forward the text requesting you to get a present because he's hopeless on to your ex, saying, oh ex, surely not, you wouldn't be quite as useless as all that, would you? You can surely manage to buy your sister's child a present, can't you? If not, well, I guess that's one more reason I'm content that you're no longer my problem. . .'

I can't get the app to do quotes but this is to OP - yes I think your ex is mean and thoughtless for not getting a gift for his nephew. I still think you were mean, although your exSIL was admittedly rude and unpleasant in how she approached you about it.

I don't really give a shit if it's sexist, I would have made sure he got a present because he's a child, it's not his fault your ex is a dick, and he's your DD's cousin. You seem to have a much more cut and dried approach than me which is your prerogative but yes that's my opinion. Obviously not for years and years, whatever is normal for your family - children get a small gift until they're adults and then it's just a card or whatever, unless we're particularly close. Not really a wife work thing, just being family. Your ex should do it but he's not going to, he may be in the wrong but that doesn't make you some kind of super feminist for not getting her child a present.

I see you get your exMIL a present because she's a good person and she deserves it, but apparently your 7/8 year old nephew doesn't . Why is she helping you anyway? How sexist since you're no longer anything to do with her.

@RosyPickle

I can't get the app to do quotes but this is to OP - yes I think your ex is mean and thoughtless for not getting a gift for his nephew. I still think you were mean, although your exSIL was admittedly rude and unpleasant in how she approached you about it.

I don't really give a shit if it's sexist, I would have made sure he got a present because he's a child, it's not his fault your ex is a dick, and he's your DD's cousin. You seem to have a much more cut and dried approach than me which is your prerogative but yes that's my opinion. Obviously not for years and years, whatever is normal for your family - children get a small gift until they're adults and then it's just a card or whatever, unless we're particularly close. Not really a wife work thing, just being family. Your ex should do it but he's not going to, he may be in the wrong but that doesn't make you some kind of super feminist for not getting her child a present.

Um, isn't the child even more his family than hers? You know, blood is thicker than water, and all that, as per SIL's perspective? So shouldn't it matter more to him, and he be so much more motivated to get his sister's kid a present - especially given how she's supported him through his sleeping with a teenager and all?

Most kids these days get so much, I'm sure that poor wee Timmy isn't going to freeze his nose to the toyshop window because he wasn't given a handwhittled toy car. . . because his dropkick blood uncle didn't get him yet another present. . .

yes I think your ex is mean and thoughtless for not getting a gift for his nephew.

What I actually asked is do you think that HE would be the mean one if I decided to stop buying presents for MY sibling's children, and exH didn't pick up the slack.

I still think you were mean, although your exSIL was admittedly rude and unpleasant in how she approached you about it.

It's mean to not buy presents for children who I have no place buying presents for I'll ask again - at what point are MEN responsible for these basic things?

I don't really give a shit if it's sexist

That's a shame that you don't care about sexism against women (assuming you're a woman)

Not really a wife work thing, just being family.

I'm not his wife and I'm no longer their family.

Your ex should do it but he's not going to, he may be in the wrong but that doesn't make you some kind of super feminist for not getting her child a present.

So WHY should I be the next person to do it because he's useless?

I think it does make me a feminist to not be a massive doormat TBH over my ex, who pushed me out of HIS family by fucking a teenager.

Clean break principle, surely.

When it comes to divorce, that is.

Mbosnz the point is, he's not going to. Yes kids do get a lot but they still might wonder why auntie whatever doesn't bother with them anymore. The ex sounds like a twat, no arguments from me there.

@RosyPickle

I see you get your exMIL a present because she's a good person and she deserves it, but apparently your 7/8 year old nephew doesn't . Why is she helping you anyway? How sexist since you're no longer anything to do with her.

That's a present from me, because she's a friend. I add the kids names on because, well, it would be weird not to.

I don't get one for exH's nephew, because it's from the kids mainly, HIS kids for HIS family.

Once again, do you think that exH should buy for my sibling's kids if I decided I couldn't be arsed any more? You haven't answered.

And MIL helps me because she was utterly mortified at her son's actions, we always got on anyway and as the mother of her grandchildren she wants to retain a good relationship. She's also not a dick who goes "oh well blood is thicker than water fuck her"

So shouldn't it matter more to him, and he be so much more motivated to get his sister's kid a present - especially given how she's supported him through his sleeping with a teenager and all?

Oh come on mbonz the poor man has a penis and we all know that means he isn't responsible for lady things lie present buying.

Mbosnz the point is, he's not going to

And that's my problem how?

Yes kids do get a lot but they still might wonder why auntie whatever doesn't bother with them anymore.

His parents are more than welcome to tell him it's because uncle had an affair with someone only 10 years older than he is.