Anybody else DISGUSTED at the anti lockdown protestors!?

[Duemarch2021]

It makes me so angry that people are protesting about lockdown... yes its frustrating but it's being done for a reason... to try and prevent as many deaths as there would be without a lockdown... they are selfishly spreading covid and yhe police have to put themselves out there and risk their lifes to stop the gatherings! 😠 What do they think will happen!? That government will say ok- ok you win... go wild, have fun and mingle lets just forget covid now!?.....Does this make anybody else absolutely fuming at the human race!!!?

[quote Unsure33]@Sobeyondthehills

So what about Spain Italy Belgium and france , higher death rates per 100000 than uk ?

Is that the fault of the government as well ? Or their rules and lockdowns ? Or the virus?

9 months is 36 weeks of trying to learn about an unknown virus and a huge amount of money was being invested behind the scenes on trying to research new drugs and vaccines.

I am sick to death of the virus being made a political tool .

And false information being thrown around .

Yes mistakes have been made but I suggest some of you go to the nhs thread and see how the nurses and doctors are coping .

Also the lady on here whose father has cancer and has caught covid in hospital.

There are two sides to every story .

And some of you are so blinkered it’s unbelievable.[/quote]
This.

Also, this thread seems to be split between those who think that we have too many restrictions, and those who think that we didn't lock down hard enough.

@Tolleshunt

The govt have had 9 months to increase capacity of the NHS to cope with the increase. Instead of doing this, they’ve chosen to spend stupid amounts of money paying businesses not to open and people not to work and put the population under house arrest. I’ll be joining them and lobbing my MP to vote against this latest round of insanity

Yes, why have we not increased capacity in the NHS in that time?
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Where are the extra Dr's, nurses and physiotherapist's coming from to resource this extra capacity?

Because you can't train doctors and nurses overnight, perhaps?

Yes, I know that.

So why build the Nightingales, then? Colossal waste of money.

Or we could have recruited staff from overseas - either to directly work in Covid care, or to backfill those roles where staff have been moved from other depts to work on Covid wards. Ethical considerations abound with attracting staff from other countries, clearly, but then so are there massive ethical considerations in condemning cancer patients to die when they would otherwise have lived if they’d been diagnosed and treated within the usual timeframes.

Of course this issue wouldn’t have been so severe in the UK of governments hadn’t deliberately underfunded the NHS over years. We’ve consistently spent around 2% less of our GDP on health compared to other comparable countries like France and Germany for years. Imagine what capacity we could have had in ICU units and other wards up and down the country if we had been investing at a similar rate to our peer countries! For that, blame lies squarely with government.

I wish people would stop saying they have a right to protest. They don't, that right has currently been removed from us. I don't agree with that, but protesting is not the answer.

If people have strong views on the issue, they need to contact their MP, giving their reasons for their objection. If people do this in sufficient numbers, the MP might realise they could lose their seat over this and vote accordingly. But the numbers have to be there for this to happen. Also the reasons you give need to be cogent, support your argument with indisputable facts. "Boris is a socialist" and "Bill Gates wants to microchip us all" are not valid reasons.

I agree with everything @sheepandcow has said. Worded much better than I could put it.

@KarenMarlow3

They're not protesting against the virus. They're protesting against the restrictions. I don't agree with their demands for lockdown to be lifted, but it's disingenuous to claim that they're protesting the virus. But the restrictions are in place because of the virus. Not disingenuous at all.

Only if you think there was only one possible response to the virus and that lockdowns in the way the government have done them have been and continue to be effective with the benefits outweighing the negatives. That there's no nuance or any way the balance could have been different. Fair enough maybe you do think that and you're far from alone, I can understand this point of view. But perhaps you can see that not everyone feels the same way and that this is the basis of the protests. So no, nobody is protesting 'against the virus'. That's a pure strawman.

Of course it's easier to dismiss people you disagree with as idiots or far right or crazy or whatever when you misrepresent where they are coming from.

Sorry, posted too soon.

Another way around the lamentable lack of capacity and staff shortages would of course be to have an effective test and trace system. If we were testing everyone often enough we could perhaps be able to identify the asymptomatic cases and pre-symptomatic cases and isolate them quickly, slowing spread, so that fewer people are infected and less hospital care is needed per head of population. But of course they didn’t bother to put that in place despite having months to do so.

So why build the Nightingales, then? Colossal waste of money.

I hope we can all agree on this. There never were enough specialist staff for these to be fully operational. They're yet another example of wasted money.

People have a right to protest. Even if in law that right has been 'removed' we still have a right to protest.

I

Those who oppose protests overlook the fact that there are countless examples of protests bringing about change.

Simply writing to your mp isn’t usually enough.

Nope,

It's getting beyond the joke now.

I totally understand the whole protecting the NHS at the start of all this but what are we protecting now?

Am I supposed to wear a fucking mask for the rest of my life to protect someone I don't know getting ill?

Brutal view I know but that's life, this can't go on forever.

Why?

Are you saying that people don't have a right to protest? do you want to live in a dictatorship?

The government has been dreadful at 'managing' the crisis and it is about time we start to ask questions rather than accept these never-ending lockdowns which seem to achieve nothing beyond destroying the entire economy.

Since the opposition is doing very little to take the government to task it is a sad fact that many people feel that protesting is the only way to make their voices heard.

@MakeItRain

I agree with the OP, in that I don't get what protesters fighting against lockdown want as an outcome. What do they think will happen if we stop the lockdown? That the virus magically disappears and we all get back to normal. Isn't it a given that this isn't going to happen? Or am I reading different science research/ news?

The virus won't magically disappear no. But lockdowns don't work so you're effectively shutting down businesses, making people unemployed and increasing national debt/poverty for nothing.

What should be happening is more effective track and trace, testing and medical centres (not necessarily hospitals).

It's because the government can't get this right that they're resorting to lockdowns and penalising everyone in the process.

@Hayeahnobut

I wish people would stop saying they have a right to protest. They don't, that right has currently been removed from us. I don't agree with that, but protesting is not the answer.

If people have strong views on the issue, they need to contact their MP, giving their reasons for their objection. If people do this in sufficient numbers, the MP might realise they could lose their seat over this and vote accordingly. But the numbers have to be there for this to happen. Also the reasons you give need to be cogent, support your argument with indisputable facts. "Boris is a socialist" and "Bill Gates wants to microchip us all" are not valid reasons.

When you say it has been removed - what do you mean? A law passed or guidance etc

I wish people would stop saying they have a right to protest. They don't, that right has currently been removed fromus

Haha wow, that's an incredible take. And if the government removed your right to vote them out would you just be like oh, OK, I don't agree but I suppose that's the way things are, what a shame.

Removing the right to protest is not a legitimate act of government, they can't do that and if you accept that they can you don't deserve to live in a democratic society.

I'm all for it.

What I don't understand about the NHS, and no one within it has answered me when I've asked, is why I can't get an appointment or treatment for a serious illness I've been diagnosed with this year. It's not cancer but it's serious enough for me to know that I might actually die if left to my own devices indefinitely. The staff I need to see don't work in respiratory. Why aren't they seeing patients like me, and all the others with even more serious illnesses, because of Covid? Have they now qualified to work with Covid patients and have given up their own specialisms? I'm just trying to understand. I've only been given vague answers like 'we don't know', 'it's because of Covid'.

Those who think lockdowns have not achieved anything what do you think the rates of hospital admissions would have been without lockdown. Look to Sweden how their approach has gone so very wrong

While I agree that the government haven’t handled the crises well it’s more that they have been too slow to lockdown

Track and trace will only work if it is compulsory. Now those claiming our civil liberties have been taken away are you prepared to have a compulsory track and trace system on your phone and harsh punishment should you not follow instructions from track and trace I very much doubt it

Gobby

you are protecting people you do know when you follow rules and wear a mask.

Also people you don't know.

The people you don't know are the ones who will help you and your loved ones if you get ill, with Covid or non Covid disease. Anyone can get ill at anytime.

Believe me, I'm in hospital now being treated with immunosuppressants and would likely have died without the bed being available.
I was walking the dog last Thursday. You don't know what's round the corner.

The nurses are overworked because many are off self isolating because of the high levels in the community.

Do you not believe the NHS wouldn't function if we didn't have the rules? Genuine question, I want to understand how other people can think so differently?

The virus won't magically disappear no. But lockdowns don't work so you're effectively shutting down businesses, making people unemployed and increasing national debt/poverty for nothing.

What should be happening is more effective track and trace, testing and medical centres (not necessarily hospitals).

It's because the government can't get this right that they're resorting to lockdowns and penalising everyone in the process.

Exactly!!

Why are they heavily restricting our lives, tanking the economy, screwing up lives and causing needless deaths from non-Covid factors instead of competently mitigating the virus with test and trace?

They do have the right to protest in a safe way that does not put them or the police at risk.

I feel angry at their stupidity, which not only creates direct risk, but sows doubts n the minds of others who might then join the irresponsible brigade too.

I feel even angrier with the MPs who are forming pressure groups to revolt against the covid measures instead of setting an example of measured reflection on the whole situation, and being guided by the scientists who are employed to provide advice.

I respect them.

Yes many NHS nurses and other NHS professionals were deployed to work on covid wards

It’s awful that so many people have been left without treatment

Hospitals can not fully function while there is the risk of covid transmission (think of usual numbers going in and out of hospital on a daily basis how could you possibly make sure every one is following guidelines)

But by now this should have been handled better and though I know some hospitals are running more services it isn’t enough

I’m pleased. Also happy that there is a group of mps standing up for our rights. I know they probably won’t win but gives me hope that there is more and more each time and at some point they might win!

*whiterabbitsweets" - What do you mean that "lockdowns don't work"? Data shows that lockdowns have had a massive effect, and our cases and death rates plummeted in spring following lockdown. A quick Google seems to indicate that lockdowns are really effective. (Eg look at Sweden's vast death rate per capita, compared with neighbouring countries that locked down).

But I do agree that the economic effect of lockdown can be devastating for some people. That's where I would be looking to get support, perhaps looking to companies whose profits from this pandemic are massive - certainly enough and more to support companies and individuals who are desperately struggling.

@Racoonworld

I’m pleased. Also happy that there is a group of mps standing up for our rights. I know they probably won’t win but gives me hope that there is more and more each time and at some point they might win!

Agree