Do you find this offensive?

[Besswess88]

Someone posted this in a group I am in, and I find it really offensive AIBU?!

Not finding something offensive doesn't equal endorsement.

Exactly my earlier point.

Other were also equally smutty cards making fun of men.

That's not the point of this thread.

[quote Besswess88]@Twistered

I thought about that but I have always been to scared to go over there as I think I am a feminist but not sure if I am 🤣🤣[/quote]
I'm sure you'd be welcome.

Not finding something offensive doesn't equal endorsement.

I think the word "offensive" is the sticking point on this thread. What a person finds offensive is so deeply personal and engrained in individual experiences. That's why the argument of misogyny is a bit of a non-point on this thread. Because unless you have been personally affected by misogynistic attitudes in your life's you're unlikely to find this offensive.

Had the OP asked, "do you think this postcard underpins and encourages societal misogynistic attitudes"?, she may well have got vastly different answers.

Being offended personally, and being able to take a step back and see that something might have contributed to unhelpful societal attitudes, are two entirely different questions ...

MeMarmite
No, but it is relevant when the card is part of an overall genre where everyone is the butt of the joke.

I wouldn't find it offensive. I don't find it funny but then I grew up in the 70s surrounded by this.
Maybe if I was younger I would be offended. Every one is entitled to their views.

LouJ85
I think most women have been affected by misogyny.

I do agree with you though on had she asked that question she would have different answers. The issue for me is that if we look at that seaside postcard genre as a whole, everyone was the butt of the joke, it's very dated humour. The likelihood of 20 somethings seeing those cards and buying them is slim, the genre will die out.

I'm personally more offended at the current marketing to women that normalises women needing prosecco on Wednesday, "why mummy drinks", "gym? I thought you said gin" and other ditzy drunk mummy jokes than I am a whole genre of dated humour.

I think most women have been affected by misogyny.

I genuinely can't think of an occasion in my life where I feel strongly that I have been personally affected by misogynistic attitudes. And other women who equally are not offended by apparently misogynistic images will likely feel the same (many of whom are on this thread).

My point was that, just as I can recognise that racism is a problematic issue in society in general, I have never personally been affected by it. Therefore I wouldn't experience personal offence in relation to such issues, but I might for example recognise it as very wrong and feel empathy for those experiencing it.

So I stand by my point, personal offence is by definition just that - personal. Recognising an issue as a problem within society (whether current or historical), without feeling deeply personally offended yourself is therefore possible. The OP's post doesn't ask about that though, she asks about personal offence taken.

The issue for me is that if we look at that seaside postcard genre as a whole, everyone was the butt of the joke, it's very dated humour.

I agree. There were examples posted earlier of those mocking men, which seem to have been conveniently disregarded by those hammering home the misogyny line!

LouJ85
I see what you mean.

You're lucky if you've not experienced misogyny. Most women I know can think of experiences throughout their lives.

"I'm all right, Jack."

Just because you haven't experienced it personally doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And the fact that this genre of humour contains the mockery of males doesn't discount the female mockery as evidence of a piece of a GIANT PICTURE wherein women are reduced to body parts, required to give men pleasure, feelings discarded. FFS, just read the relationships boards, this happens in women's real lives constantly. Even though I am not currently being treated in such a way by men doesn't mean I don't care that other women are!

Even though I am not currently being treated in such a way by men doesn't mean I don't care that other women are!

I didn't say I didn't care - you're adding in your own words to my post.

I said I'm not personally offended because I haven't personally experienced misogyny. I also acknowledged that I am able to recognise that an issue might exist in society and feel empathy for those who experience it, without feeling personally offended myself. Personal offence is subjective; recognising societal issues at large that may or mat not have affected you is objective. There's a difference.

As I said, had the OP worded her post in a less personal and emotive way, perhaps aiming to explore people's objective opinions about the relationship between such images and misogyny, she likely would have had different responses. But because she asked about subjective experiences of feeling personally offended, she got very different responses based on individual experiences.

Just because you haven't experienced it personally doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Again. I didn't say it didn't exist. I said I'm not personally offended by the image, as per the original question, because I haven't been personally affected by misogynistic attitudes or behaviour. It's really not difficult to understand.

Ok, fair enough - I admit I was generalising a bit, but that is why I didn't directly quote you.

The Cambridge dictionary defines being offended as: 'the condition of having your feelings hurt esp. because someone has been rude or showed a lack of respect'.

The key here is "having your feelings hurt" by something, which I'm sure we can all agree is a deeply subjective and personal thing. What would hurt my feelings may not bother you, and vice versa. That's why starting a thread with "are you offended by x, y or z...?" is always going to naturally divide opinion, because it is emotive language that delves into personal experiences, and we have all had very different and unique experiences in our lives that have led us to either be offended by something or not.

However, this doesn't mean we can't step back and recognise an issue at large from an objective point of view, and have empathy for those involved. But that's a different question and should have been worded as such.

Just to expand a little further - there are a number of questions that could have been asked based on this image, and each would explore from different angles. My answer would have been different for each one.

For example:

1. Do you think images such as these have contributed to misogynistic behaviour in society in general? Yes, quite possibly, but without knowing a great deal about it this I'd need to research a little further.

1. Do you empathise with those affected by misogynistic attitudes? Yes, of course I do, it must be awful to feel discriminated against or abused simply for being female.

1. Are you personally offended by this image? No, not in the slightest, because it doesn't resonate with me personally at all.

See the difference?

How strange I always took offence to mean generally shitty

So eg if I was in the pub and someone told a racist joke I could say, that's really offensive.

I never really connected it with hurt feelings at all but I've been using it wrong.

So that's something useful to come out of the thread.

I just took it to be a fancier way of saying that's out of order

EG you're in the pub and one of the blokes says look at the tits on that or an obscene comment about a man he thinks 'looks gay'. I suppose in real life I'd say nothing or STFU depending on how well I knew them and whether I thought they'd just get really arsey and nothing would be achieved etc. That's always a thing isn't it and men I've noticed don't tend to pull others up, that's another thread though.

In fact I knew a man who used to grab the breasts of women he knew when he was pissed. Which was very annoying.

I suppose that's not a think to say, I dunno. That behaviour is really offensive.

Tricky one.

The 'I'm sorry you're offended' non apologies frequently put out by politicians etc when they say something outrageous becomes even more crap than I thought it was!

I took it to mean like, someone farts and someone says that's a really offensive smell..!

Good thread on the end even though the responses are a bit depressing.

The whole concept of being offended has become much more weaponised in recent years though.

I can say I see something as offensive, without necessarily actually feeling upset. But there is the slightly different meaning of "I find that offensive!" which means hurt feelings, and is sometimes genuine but sometimes used as a power play, especially on SM.

My DD has a friend who who has picked up on this. They're only 9/10 but she says "I find that offensive" and cries if anyone disagrees with her.

There were examples posted earlier of those mocking men, which seem to have been conveniently disregarded by those hammering home the misogyny line!

Well I suppose one could argue the similar point that white people are not victims of racism in the same way that black people are. Men as a group have the power and have historically always had the power and used it to subjugate, commodify, objectify, victimise, brutalise and minimise women. This means them being the butt of the joke is less barbed and corrosive than the effect on the women in these images.

I don't remember a reverse of Benny hill etc back in the day.

I also never thought page 7 (was it?) Was ever really the same as page 3 and I'm not sure that page 7 existed back then anyway. I grew up with Sam fox on page 3 (yay! She's turned 16!), Mandy Smith and Bill Wyman on the telly etc.

Do women drive around in vans shouting show us your pecs/ arse at schoolboys?

There's a context isn't there.

I'm pleased for the women on here who have not experienced any of that sort of thing, Street harassment etc. It was the norm round here growing up and schoolgirls were a major target.

Anyway I'm pleased for the women who have a different view tbh.

Not offended. Not funny either, but not offended.

I actually don't think mocking men's penis size is OK, like in the cartoon someone showed. It's humiliating and upsetting for men and no better than similar jokes about women. I don't do it myself, nor do I joke about violence towards men, it just feels wrong when I don't think it should happen to women.

BUT there is a difference. Part of it is what MrsKoala says, the historical context and the fact that it's women who have suffered the most from misogyny. men may upset by sexist attitudes to them, but they tend not to take away their money, time, bodily autonomy, freedom to work etc.

The other thing is that the physical differences mean that joking about men assaulting woman or using their bodies comes with the reality that they can generally use their physical power to do it. Whereas the other way round, it may be rude to men, but is not threatening in the same way.

Someone turn down the heating..... the snowflakes will melt!

Really?? Is it really offensive??
I have big boobs, they get stared at and I, in no way am offended by the OP

Unfunny but not offensive.