AIBU to ask if anyone here still thinks Brexit is a good idea?

[Sundiamond]

There was a time when the board was alive with argument around Brexit.

Does anyone still believe that Brexit is a good move and we, as a country, will gain more than we will lose?

If you genuinely want to understand the reasons that the Brexit vote was so popular the answers are definitely out there

The reasons why the vote was popular aren't reasons why we will benefit, though. It was a protest vote, a combination of dissatisfaction with austerity, thinly veiled racism and something of the early days of Trump where some people really must have thought that if you kept saying things you wanted to happen they somehow became true. The vote was not supposed to get through and literally panicked anyone who had anything to do with the fallout.

the answers are definitely out there
Didn't they used to say that in The X Files?

I'd like to know what I'm supposed to be getting behind please. Also, businesses being told to prepare, what are they supposed to do when we don't know what to prepare for?

@FrippEnos

Sundiamond There was a time when the board was alive with argument around Brexit.

There has never been a time when the board was alive with argument around Brexit.

There has been plenty of name calling and refusal to here any PoV other than Brexit is bad.

Its just the same names saying the same things over and over again.

This. I naively tried to have a discussion as to my reason for voting leave. It started out well, both sides counter-arguing politely, both sides having valid reason.

By the second page I was called a vile, uneducated racist and a ‘slow painful death’ was wished upon my children.

Sadly you cannot have a reasoned political debate on MN.

Everyone needs to pull together.

why? everythings going to be great now isnt it, youre all delighted how its going.

why on earth do we need to pull together for something so brilliant?

I wonder if any of the people saying that the consequences will be worth it have lost their jobs due to Brexit? Or anyone dependent on insulin from the EU?
Or is it just other people who can be collateral damage?

poor brexitteers- always the victims

By the second page I was called a vile, uneducated racist and a ‘slow painful death’ was wished upon my children.

Really? People wished a slow painful death on your children? Bullshit.

Did anyone really think that little old us could go to the whole of Europe "we don't want to give you any money anymore, we dont want you to be able to come to our country, we dont want you to put rules on our products or animals care etc, but we want to be able to go to your country whenever we want, use our NHS at your hospitals, sell you everything we always did, buy everything we always did, all at the same prices, and we dont want any additional customs at the ports" and Europe would go "well we don't have any choice but to accept those terms that are terrible for us but fantastic for you."
Of course that's not what brexiteers expected, it is a stupid allegation.

@TeenyTinyDustinHoffman

By the second page I was called a vile, uneducated racist and a ‘slow painful death’ was wished upon my children.

Really? People wished a slow painful death on your children? Bullshit.

No sadly it’s true. Obviously the comment was removed by MN.

I think I was also called a weasel on the same thread. Think that got deleted too but funnily enough I was so bothered about that ones

Victims!! When something you never ever dared dream of in your wildest dream happens because a PM totally miss read his country, I can assure you the last thing we are is victims.

businesses being told to prepare, what are they supposed to do when we don't know what to prepare for?

Oh this fucks me off so much. Those ads with people in factories etc, striding about purposefully with boxes and clipboards, shouting at the viewer about getting ready. We all know no fucker has the faintest idea what's going to happen, Johnson you twunt. No one's fooled.

I voted for Brexit because the European Union it is just that, a political union between nations. Britain has a long history of democracy and a different system of law to the rest of Europe. I don't believe that voluntarily going into a big political experiment is a good idea. Our democracy was diluted as we only had one vote among 27. Not only that but the Commission is appointed rather than elected. Its a bit like having an unelected cabinet but an elected Parliament (where we only get to decide 1 in 27 MPs). At the moment there is a reasonable amount of consensus across Europe but that might not always be case, and a lack of democracy is fundamentally dangerous.

Secondarily I don't think the Economic union across Europe is a good idea. This was seen in the debt crisis in Greece. They were unable to devalue their currency due to the Euro and so had to take on massive debt. The EU won't last for long as an economic union because there are different economic conditions across Europe.

The electorate voted for Brexit 3 times. To Brexit supporters, Brexit isn’t just desirable it is essential and represents a fresh start. It’s so much more than a protest vote. Whilst Remainers are obsessed with tangible benefits (usually money); Brexit supporters were prepared to take a hit for the greater long term good. This is why is it characterised as sound bites by Remainers. Whilst it would have been lovely to have strong leadership to take us through this with clarity and purpose and not to have a pandemic to content with too, the current situation does not diminish the aspirations of those who voted for Brexit.

brexitteers: im so excited this is beyond my wildest dreams
others: ooh what are you most excited about? what are the benefits?
brexitteers: how very dare you!

brexitteers: its going to be amazing - we all need to pull together.

@Helmetbymidnight

Everyone needs to pull together.

why? everythings going to be great now isnt it, youre all delighted how its going.

why on earth do we need to pull together for something so brilliant?

This is a good point which never usually gets much of a response. The narrative has very quietly shifted from "We will thrive" to "We will survive". The EU is not without it's flaws and I don't think the sky will fall in when we leave but why do people demand that we hunker down and pull together and tighten our belts when Brexit is apparently so overwhelmingly brilliant.

Our democracy was diluted as we only had one vote among 27 The UK is/was on the winning side of votes something like 90% of the time.
Not only that but the Commission is appointed rather than elected. Its a bit like having an unelected cabinet but an elected Parliament (where we only get to decide 1 in 27 MPs). Brexit and post-Brexit activity was largely orchestrated by an unelected SPAD.

At the moment there is a reasonable amount of consensus across Europe but that might not always be case, and a lack of democracy is fundamentally dangerous. That's a bit arse-backwards; there used to be a lack of consensus and that's why the EU was formed; on the principle that countries that benefit from trading together and sharing resources are more likely to try to stay friendly.

Secondarily I don't think the Economic union across Europe is a good idea. This was seen in the debt crisis in Greece. They were unable to devalue their currency due to the Euro and so had to take on massive debt. The UK had a special dispensation on currency.

Does the way the EU are reacting to those members who are rejecting the new budget not show you that they are bullies?

@Newrumpus

The electorate voted for Brexit 3 times. To Brexit supporters, Brexit isn’t just desirable it is essential and represents a fresh start. It’s so much more than a protest vote. Whilst Remainers are obsessed with tangible benefits (usually money); Brexit supporters were prepared to take a hit for the greater long term good. This is why is it characterised as sound bites by Remainers. Whilst it would have been lovely to have strong leadership to take us through this with clarity and purpose and not to have a pandemic to content with too, the current situation does not diminish the aspirations of those who voted for Brexit.

What is the greater long term good?

Because it's laughable that this isn't about money for the people that have the most influence over this. You think that Johnson or Rees Mogg or any of the other disaster capitalists would give two fucks about your sovereignty or your principles if they didn't stand to gain from it?

I'd also be quite interested to hear all these Remainer soundbites.
Brexit means Brexit?
Get Brexit Done?
£350 million a week to the NHS?
Take back control?

Brexit supporters were prepared to take a hit for the greater long term good.

And what would that be?

The UK is/was on the winning side of votes something like 90% of the time.

We were still losing a directly accountable government we could vote out.

Brexit and post-Brexit activity was largely orchestrated by an unelected SPAD

Yes and the elected Boris Johnson has just got rid of him after a year or so due to democratic pressure to do so. Who has ever been fired from the Commission?

TeenyTinyDustinHoffman

You do realise that the vast majority of brexiters that even bothered to open the thread, probably said to themselves, 'same old same old' and didn't bother.

Its just the same people talking to themselves again?

I'm in Ireland. Watching this thread with interest. In my UK friend groups I know nobody who thinks its a good idea. I think if you did you would be a redneck, living in the golden glow of the empire or mentally unsound.
To agree with Brexit is the badge of the idiot in my book.

Well done Jakey - thoughtful, reasoned and respectful points - are something you might learn to make if you socialise more widely.

@WaltzForDebbie

I voted for Brexit because the European Union it is just that, a political union between nations. Britain has a long history of democracy and a different system of law to the rest of Europe. I don't believe that voluntarily going into a big political experiment is a good idea. Our democracy was diluted as we only had one vote among 27. Not only that but the Commission is appointed rather than elected. Its a bit like having an unelected cabinet but an elected Parliament (where we only get to decide 1 in 27 MPs). At the moment there is a reasonable amount of consensus across Europe but that might not always be case, and a lack of democracy is fundamentally dangerous.

Secondarily I don't think the Economic union across Europe is a good idea. This was seen in the debt crisis in Greece. They were unable to devalue their currency due to the Euro and so had to take on massive debt. The EU won't last for long as an economic union because there are different economic conditions across Europe.

This is such a funny post. Of course you only get one vote - you are only one of 27! And anyway - even with a democratically elected Govt look where that got you - took away most of your rights with e covid debacle. No democracy there. The UK will be an absolute backwater economically. Watching the UK right now is like watching a really old relative at Christmas talk about the good old days.....