AIBU to ask if anyone here still thinks Brexit is a good idea?

[Sundiamond]

There was a time when the board was alive with argument around Brexit.

Does anyone still believe that Brexit is a good move and we, as a country, will gain more than we will lose?

I don't think theres much to celebrate here, maybe Leave voters can point out positives?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46627083

@JamieLeeCurtains

Brexit = even more red tape, and an 'adjudication committee' who are even more shadowy than the so-called 'unelected EU officials'. Slow hand clap.

See now this is a sticking point for me. I voted remain but still maintain I could have been swayed if there had been a coherent plan in place.

I’m vaguely aware that the EU hasn’t/hadn’t published its accounts for years, dodgy as hell imho, but I don’t think what’s on the horizon to replace it is any more transparent or accountable. Actually I know for a fact it isn’t because even now brexit is a jumbled mess of bluster and bollocks allowing god knows what to fly under the radar.

I don’t think the EU is perfect but I’m yet to be convinced that tearing our economy and freedom of movement out of it will result in anything positive for the public. I’ll be watching with interest exactly who benefits individually from this as I’m pretty convinced there are going to be some nice little bonuses for some people responsible for the leave side.

@Andante57

Social media takes mis information to a whole new level

Very true Jasjas.
Nonetheless, is there any actual proof or evidence of Russian interference?
As I mentioned upthread Carole Cadwalladr had to climb down and apologise to Aaron Banks - why did she wait until the morning of the court case to do that?
It’s quite odd - maybe she wanted to extract as much money as she could from her crowd funding.

The report drawn up by Parliaments security committee makes it clear Russia tries to interfere. But Johnson never investigated if the attempts were effective or not, he also blocked its publication.

The report says that the government, along with its intelligence and security services, “underestimated the response required to the Russian threat and are still playing catch up.” It asserts that “Russian influence in the UK is the new normal […] the UK is clearly a target for Russian disinformation.”

Did these attempts at misinformation make the difference in 2016? we will probably never know but Putin wants Brexit and he wanted Trump in the White house, what's good for Russia is not always good for the West.

Thank you for answering my question jasjas.

Would it not be possible for the Labour Party or some other institution to investigate Russian influence?

@Andante57

Thank you for answering my question jasjas.

Would it not be possible for the Labour Party or some other institution to investigate Russian influence?

Without access to the security services and hence Govt cooperation, any report would be guesswork and speculation plus subject to challenge in the courts, should individuals be named.

Aside, i have always wondered why a man who spent years studying in Russia, was elevated to be a senior advisor to Johnson/Gove, such an appointment just a few years ago would have been unthinkable.

I’m vaguely aware that the EU hasn’t/hadn’t published its accounts for years, dodgy as hell imho

This is inaccurate.
fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

The EU has published its accounts. It's another myth that was put around.

In fact they do a better job at it than the UK government.
fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

I voted for or Brexit. I was very pleased when we finally left the EU on Dec 31st 2019. I think as that was what majority of country voted for then that was what had to be delivered. I was appalled at the antics some remained MP's pulled in house of commons. I won't forget what a lot of Labour and some Tory MP's did. I will never vote for those people again. We are building free trade deals with many countries and believe the UK will manage very well without EU and better in some cases like fishing. The EU is not efficient. It is corrupt. You only have to look at report by auditors of its accounts to recognise they agree one thing then do another yet don't change the paper trail, meaning money allocated for something sometimes get spent on something entirely different without knowledge of other member states. The EU beurocrassy are massively extravagant. Every time they meet they have extravagant meals and bottles of wine at £100 per bottle. Jets are used to ferry them about as too posh to use commercial flights. The whole shebang moves location every month with astronomical costs. All because one country won't back down and insists on having the status of being able to say it is location in its country. Too much wasted money for my liking. The UK pays on far more than it gets out whilst some countries pay virtually nothing and takes a lot out. We need to ensure no one goes hungry in UK. It is also unfair to deny migration to Commonwealth countries because virtually all immigration places taken by EU citizens. Much fairer with points based system similar to use in Australia.

For Cornettoninja a full facts article from 2017 - fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

I’m vaguely aware that the EU hasn’t/hadn’t published its accounts for years, dodgy as hell imho

This is an issue, people having very vague ideas that are completely wrong. And yet they still continue to expound opinions.
Extraordinary

We have fucked up. Simple

@caringcarer You've a point on the moving of the EU Parliament to Strasbourg, never really understood that! but on jets and fine wine, perhaps look at what our govt spends on these things?

In regard to immigration, over 50% of all inward migration is outside of the EU.
Also, a migrant from Europe, having saved some cash, will often return to Poland etc as their economy improves or can easily integrate into a predominately white christian country such as the UK.

All we are doing at the moment is negotiating FTA's we will lose outside of the EU, we don't appear to be getting extra ones....... plus we lose complete access to the worlds richest trading bloc even with a trade deal, it doesn't cover financial services.

I was very pleased when we finally left the EU on Dec 31st 2019
If you cannot even get the facts of Brexit right, I CBA to read on

So caring, your expectation is that leaving the EU is going to result in massive money-saving for the UK, brilliant trade deals and a buoyant economy with no child going hungry?

It's sad - not only that you were lied to, but that you still believe it.

Without access to the security services and hence Govt cooperation, any report would be guesswork and speculation plus subject to challenge in the courts, should individuals be named

That is true.
I don’t suppose the truth will ever be known. Even if ‘proof’ is found who knows if that’s true. Look at how easily Martin Bashir - presumably with the consent of far more people at the BBC than are admitting - tricked people with forgeries.

It does still astonish me that people STILL think Brexit will improve the economy. I don't know anything about economics, but 90% of economists in 2016 said Brexit would be bad for the economy and is now estimated to have cost us 200 BILLION! I'll just go with what the expert economists think, it's like climate change, what do I know about it? I'll just go with what the vast majority of experts think. I do cringe for people who work in a shop, or drive a bus or whatever but seem to think they know better than a bunch of Nobel prize winning economists, it's just embarrassing for them.

@caringcarer

The 'majority of the country' did not vote to leave. The majority of those that voted voted to leave. Not the same thing and another oft repeated trotted out lie piece of sloppy unthought-out language. 'The will of the people ' my arse.

(And which 'country'? The UK is not a country it is a union of countries and the one I lived in voted overwhelmingly to remain.)

@Saoirse7
Not all English MPs vote in favour of a motion so tactical voting would work. Or leave the UK - independence or a united Ireland?

@teateateateateamoretea

I’m vaguely aware that the EU hasn’t/hadn’t published its accounts for years, dodgy as hell imho

This is an issue, people having very vague ideas that are completely wrong. And yet they still continue to expound opinions.
Extraordinary

You’ve missed my point. The leave campaign was solely focused on slogans and sound bites. There was very little aimed at actually educating on their stance; education was clearly too dry for their tastes when marketing is about ease.

Even now there’s nothing to suggest we are working to an actual framework of what the UK is meant to look like independent of the EU. We have spent the last few years focussed on a goal, it’s literally been all about getting out and nothing about the end result.

I hope it works out, as I’ve said before, I have no desire to watch my families lives down go the shitter, but I’m apprehensive because there is very little left in the void of the EU apart from a very lonely, ambiguous ‘taking back control’. I’m not convinced that we have the right leadership to be steering that particular ship, or indeed any brilliant options as an alternative.

@caringcarer

I voted for or Brexit. I was very pleased when we finally left the EU on Dec 31st 2019. I think as that was what majority of country voted for then that was what had to be delivered. I was appalled at the antics some remained MP's pulled in house of commons. I won't forget what a lot of Labour and some Tory MP's did. I will never vote for those people again. We are building free trade deals with many countries and believe the UK will manage very well without EU and better in some cases like fishing. The EU is not efficient. It is corrupt. You only have to look at report by auditors of its accounts to recognise they agree one thing then do another yet don't change the paper trail, meaning money allocated for something sometimes get spent on something entirely different without knowledge of other member states. The EU beurocrassy are massively extravagant. Every time they meet they have extravagant meals and bottles of wine at £100 per bottle. Jets are used to ferry them about as too posh to use commercial flights. The whole shebang moves location every month with astronomical costs. All because one country won't back down and insists on having the status of being able to say it is location in its country. Too much wasted money for my liking. The UK pays on far more than it gets out whilst some countries pay virtually nothing and takes a lot out. We need to ensure no one goes hungry in UK. It is also unfair to deny migration to Commonwealth countries because virtually all immigration places taken by EU citizens. Much fairer with points based system similar to use in Australia.

Nigel! Nice to see you contributing. Unfortunately this is all so much bullshit that it's not worth rebutting. Carry on dreaming, little one.

Nigel! Nice to see you contributing. Unfortunately this is all so much bullshit that it's not worth rebutting. Carry on dreaming, little one.

she's a genuine poster, and seems, as her name suggests, a caring person. I think its quite heart-breaking really. I wonder if she will ever work out how much she has been conned or if it will always be the EU's fault?

Well, it just sounds like Nigel Fromage remixed. Not one thing there that hasn't come out of his frog-like mouth at some point.

It is also unfair to deny migration to Commonwealth countries because virtually all immigration places taken by EU citizens

Actually, there's more extra EU immigration than from EU countries, I suppose you know that? Also, new immigration rules don't facilitate at all Commonwealth citizens to come to the UK, they just make it harder for EU citizens. Brexit will make people poorer, the famous, big trade deals haven't materialized yet. And fishing accounts for 0.4% of UK economy.

Sorry caring - the fishermen have finally realised that Brexit screws them too: www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/fish-merchant-who-voted-brexit-to-take-back-control-of-uk-waters-says-he-was-brainwashed/01/12/?fbclid=IwAR3WXYpckj--k3BL6VUF-LtkeJz9ib2zWyQAgmcv_DWjA8PvjvlrJnBEyLo

I voted remain. I'm really depressed about the whole situation tbh. I've been trying to find a positive since 2016 but haven't had much luck.

So from this thread we have:
Better trade situation for Africa (I don't really understand the CAP thing so I'll take the pp's word for it)
Less money spent on wine by MEPs
Wetlands
Fishing (or maybe not?)
Less money spent on interpreters in the NHS (??)