AIBU to ask if anyone here still thinks Brexit is a good idea?

[Sundiamond]

There was a time when the board was alive with argument around Brexit.

Does anyone still believe that Brexit is a good move and we, as a country, will gain more than we will lose?

Not only is fishing is only around 0.02% of GDP but a lot of the fish caught in the U.K. is sold in the EU.

With or without a deal, it will substantially hurt the fishing industry because there will be tariffs imposed on fish sold to the European Union and it will result in a loss of revenue because our fish will become much more expensive.

They promised all the benefits for the U.K. with none of the downside.

As many of us know divorces are costly.

It's absolute madness that the much maligned financial services industry has been sold down the river in favour of fishing when the tax revenue it generates is orders of magnitude more. I guess if Brexit voters "knew what they were voting for" then they were saying ver clearly that they don't want public services funded.

*very

If fishing is so unimportant, why are the French making such a fuss about it?

@PolkadotGiraffe

It's absolute madness that the much maligned financial services industry has been sold down the river in favour of fishing when the tax revenue it generates is orders of magnitude more. I guess if Brexit voters "knew what they were voting for" then they were saying ver clearly that they don't want public services funded.

I don't see it as "sold down the river" rather that once the UK leaves the EU, London becomes no less or more important to the EU than any other financial centre.

There isn't a lot anyone can do about that.

We sold 60% of our quota

How does that work though? Does Brexit unsell them? If I sold my house to a French man do I get my old house back on Brexit? Are quotas only temporary?

@1stDecember

If fishing is so unimportant, why are the French making such a fuss about it?

It's a tiny industry regardless of the country.

It's a fraction of a percent of a gdp in all countries.

Of course any industry , however tiny will try to protect its interests.

Net net of Brexit everyone loses.

And yet the EU is holding out over fishing. Maybe it's a deal, that that's what the big last-minute problem will be. Because both sides clearly want a deal. But the French, for instance, need to be able to say to their fishermen that they played hard ball.

It's a fraction of a percent of a gdp in all countries.

Exactly.

@MarshaBradyo

It's a fraction of a percent of a gdp in all countries.

Exactly.

Which is why it's all posturing, on both sides. It will fall away at the last minute.

@1stDecember

And yet the EU is holding out over fishing. Maybe it's a deal, that that's what the big last-minute problem will be. Because both sides clearly want a deal. But the French, for instance, need to be able to say to their fishermen that they played hard ball.

Even if there is a "deal" it's not going to be as before.

Unless anyone thinks that added bureaucracy and taxes are great for businesses of course.

If more paperwork and taxes and barriers were intrinsically good then we should do so within U.K. counties.

I can't imagine any business , specially SME who will enjoy dealing with this www.gov.uk/transition and whose profits will increase because of extra paperwork , restrictions of all kinds and tariffs.

Wait, are you arguing for us not to leave the EU? Still?

Anyway, people who criticise the UK for sticking up for its fishing industry never seems to notice that the French do exactly the same thing. Oh but they are in the EU, and EU members can do no wrong!

There isn't a lot anyone can do about that.

Well yes, there is. The impact could have been mitigated to some extent by ensuring regulatory equivalence etc. It is the pursuit of "hard Brexit" that is the source of most of the problems.

Anyway, people who criticise the UK for sticking up for its fishing industry never seems to notice that the French do exactly the same thing. Oh but they are in the EU, and EU members can do no wrong!

There is a difference between a country that deliberately shoots itself in the foot, then argues that it should be allowed to keep its toes, and a country that asks for its toes not to amputated against its will.

@AuldAlliance

Anyway, people who criticise the UK for sticking up for its fishing industry never seems to notice that the French do exactly the same thing. Oh but they are in the EU, and EU members can do no wrong!

There is a difference between a country that deliberately shoots itself in the foot, then argues that it should be allowed to keep its toes, and a country that asks for its toes not to amputated against its will.

The difference is, if France ruin a deal for the EU, it's not them that will suffer the consequences - it's Ireland.

Maybe a bit off topic but I’m seeing the same thing here as in the campaign which I think was a mistake from remain.

Lots of telling people what is WRONG with Brexit and very little telling people all the benefits and why it’s good to remain. After years of media telling us all how awful the EU was, remain just kind of saying, ‘if you leave the fires of hell will burn you’ wasn’t going to cut it.

Perhaps I’m wrong, admittedly I wasn’t well during that time and didn’t see as much on the telly. / news as some others on here but the bits I saw did more to attack leaving than promoting stay.

Ok, @OlympicProcrasinator

We've left the EU (happened on the 1st January), so this is the case for rejoining/soft Brexit.

• Preservation of the Good Friday Agreement and peace in Northern Ireland with no borders
• Regulatory alignment with the biggest trading block on our doorstep of 500 million people and a say in determining the same.
• Free movement of goods and people, reducing red tape, trade barriers and paperwork. This incidentally, puts British-born people back on the same level as Europeans for the right to work, travel l, study and family life. As of 2021, there's going to be a lot of British-born emigrants facing the choice of splitting their families up or not coming home due to Home Office visa requirements.
• Our national security will be more efficient by sharing information on policing, terror threats and cyberwar tactics (yes, we had this and we are removing ourselves from it)
• Membership of the Erasmus scheme and the chance for students to experience life in another country.
• More clout at the table when negotiating with other blocs (Asia/USA). The EU now has trade deals with 80% of the world and we are starting from scratch...again.
• Better protection of worker's rights, the environment and human rights. To give you some random examples, the Blue Flag scheme was supported by the EU whilst the ECHR has seen cases as diverse as care home neglect and police brutality.

That's just off the top of my head. What Johnson is doing to the country is a brutal form of self-harm.

What Johnson is doing to the country is a brutal form of self-harm.
And Leave voters have voted repeatedly to burn down all of the above. They can own the consequences.

@TheABC

Ok, *@OlympicProcrasinator*

We've left the EU (happened on the 1st January), so this is the case for rejoining/soft Brexit.

• Preservation of the Good Friday Agreement and peace in Northern Ireland with no borders
• Regulatory alignment with the biggest trading block on our doorstep of 500 million people and a say in determining the same.
• Free movement of goods and people, reducing red tape, trade barriers and paperwork. This incidentally, puts British-born people back on the same level as Europeans for the right to work, travel l, study and family life. As of 2021, there's going to be a lot of British-born emigrants facing the choice of splitting their families up or not coming home due to Home Office visa requirements.
• Our national security will be more efficient by sharing information on policing, terror threats and cyberwar tactics (yes, we had this and we are removing ourselves from it)
• Membership of the Erasmus scheme and the chance for students to experience life in another country.
• More clout at the table when negotiating with other blocs (Asia/USA). The EU now has trade deals with 80% of the world and we are starting from scratch...again.
• Better protection of worker's rights, the environment and human rights. To give you some random examples, the Blue Flag scheme was supported by the EU whilst the ECHR has seen cases as diverse as care home neglect and police brutality.

That's just off the top of my head. What Johnson is doing to the country is a brutal form of self-harm.

This is down to voters. And is depressing no doubt.

What do you think the reasons are for Johnson preferring no deal? (if he does)

We've left the EU (happened on the 1st January), so this is the case for rejoining/soft Brexit.

I’m sure there is much more than that. However, I don’t think they’d have us back even if we had a successful campaign in the future. We haven’t just burned our bridges we blew them up.

With or without a deal, it will substantially hurt the fishing industry because there will be tariffs imposed on fish sold to the European Union and it will result in a loss of revenue because our fish will become much more expensive

Would a reduction in demand for our fish by the EU be offset by an increase in domestic demand because EU fish will be too expensive? Or do we not eat much fish ?!

@OlympicProcrastinator

We've left the EU (happened on the 1st January), so this is the case for rejoining/soft Brexit.

I’m sure there is much more than that. However, I don’t think they’d have us back even if we had a successful campaign in the future. We haven’t just burned our bridges we blew them up.

Lol, sure, they'd turn down the enormous chunk of their budget that we took with us

Fresh Wild Duck - £20 per Brace !!

I'm sure your average UK household a) wants duck and b) can afford that.

@OlympicProcrastinator, it's going to take another generation before rejoining is a serious option, but I suspect we could ask for (and get) a soft Brexit. However, May blew that chance with her red lines. Boris just seems clueless.

@MarshaBradyo, I can't claim access to Johnson's thoughts. I think he is aiming for the bare minimum that he can get away with (he is very lazy).