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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to ask if anyone here still thinks Brexit is a good idea?

628 replies

Sundiamond · 28/11/2020 08:26

There was a time when the board was alive with argument around Brexit.

Does anyone still believe that Brexit is a good move and we, as a country, will gain more than we will lose?

OP posts:
ReturntoSpamfritters · 02/12/2020 20:12

@akerman

It’s not an exercise on d3mocracy at all. The reverse. Democracy depends upon well-informed citizens being presented with accurate, full information, and a clear understanding of outcomes. This referendum was a disgrace and would have been nullified under the Vienna Convention, had it not only been advisory.
Exactly. How can it be a good thing if people are voting but they don't know what for?
NotAKaren · 02/12/2020 20:19

How do you think the best way would be to prevent misinformation? Do you think there has always been misinformation before elections and referendums?

Perhaps look at other countries that have bodies that oversee these votes. There is a referendum commission in Ireland that is an independent body to communicate factual information about the referendum proposal. I am not sure how much teeth this body has in terms of dealing with one side or another putting out false claims but they do know a thing or two about referendums in Ireland.

akerman · 02/12/2020 20:24

And in Switzerland they rerun a referendum if it has been subject to false information
And nobody leaps up and down shrieking about how unthinkable that is.

PolkadotGiraffe · 02/12/2020 22:52

@akerman

It’s not an exercise on d3mocracy at all. The reverse. Democracy depends upon well-informed citizens being presented with accurate, full information, and a clear understanding of outcomes. This referendum was a disgrace and would have been nullified under the Vienna Convention, had it not only been advisory.
This. ^^
PolkadotGiraffe · 02/12/2020 22:55

AND that we were told no super-majority was required, as is usually the case for changes on major constitutional issues, because it was only advisory. Then suddenly after the result (without achieving anything like a super-majority) we are told it is the "will of the people" and can't be questioned (even though not a single reputable poll has shown a majority for Brexit since 2017). And anybody who hates this xenophobia is a "citizen of nowhere" (you might want to look up where the Tories transposed that expression from, if you do not know already).

rnos · 02/12/2020 23:18

Me. There are too many reasons to list why it's still a good idea. Pointless to bother on here. If anyone is genuinely interested, look at briefingsforbritain.co.uk/

maddy68 · 02/12/2020 23:29

Literally noone things it's still a good idea. My son and my parents voted for brexit and now they think it's a terrible idea

PolkadotGiraffe · 03/12/2020 00:03

[quote rnos]Me. There are too many reasons to list why it's still a good idea. Pointless to bother on here. If anyone is genuinely interested, look at briefingsforbritain.co.uk/[/quote]
🤣 Oh dear!!!! 😆😆

Or did you post this ironically? Hard to tell sometimes, so apologies if you did.

Saoirse7 · 03/12/2020 00:58

@OlympicProcrastinator

Maybe a bit off topic but I’m seeing the same thing here as in the campaign which I think was a mistake from remain.

Lots of telling people what is WRONG with Brexit and very little telling people all the benefits and why it’s good to remain. After years of media telling us all how awful the EU was, remain just kind of saying, ‘if you leave the fires of hell will burn you’ wasn’t going to cut it.

Perhaps I’m wrong, admittedly I wasn’t well during that time and didn’t see as much on the telly. / news as some others on here but the bits I saw did more to attack leaving than promoting stay.

Much less chance of peace being destroyed in NI for one.

Having to negotiate a trade deal with the EU (one of their main trading partners) that will in all likelihood be worse than the previous deal of....being in it. In fact Britain had the best deal of almost any country in the EU.

Cynically, I am very dubious as to how the Eu grants are going to be fairly replaced. The EU grants revolutionised NI, the Peace grants, the redevelopment grants and business grants. The grants will be dictated by a Tory cabinet, how much of a shit will they give about a farmer in NI living at the Derry/Donegal border?

Scotland, Wales and NI are wildly underrepresented in Westminster. Their votes are basically redundant. Technically those 3 countries make up 3/4 of the UK yet have just 18% representation in the house of Commons. This is fundamentally flawed.

I have yet to read one positive of Brexit for NI. Would be really interested to hear one.

Saoirse7 · 03/12/2020 01:05

@IVFNewbie

Brexit is a good idea because the majority of people (that voted) voted for it. That is an exercise in democracy.
Democracy is only a victory if it is a clean fight. The Leave campaign peddled lies upon lies. They played with people's emotions, blamed the foreigners, used propaganda. It is honestly a crime how the Leave campaign got away with so many lies and inaccuracies.

Don't forget Hitler was also democratically elected.

KenDodd · 03/12/2020 08:19

My son and my parents voted for brexit and now they think it's a terrible idea
And did they do anything at all to try to stop it? Or did they vote Tory 'get Brexit done' in subsequent elections?
If they did then they can own Brexit, 100% this mess is their own fault and if we have a return to bloodshed on the streets of NI it will be on their hands.

lifestooshort123 · 03/12/2020 08:20

Scotland, Wales and NI are wildly underrepresented in Westminster. Their votes are basically redundant. Technically those 3 countries make up 3/4 of the UK yet have just 18% representation in the house of Commons. This is fundamentally flawed.
How is this flawed when 56 million live in England and 10 million live in the other 3? Sounds spot on to me.

teateateateateamoretea · 03/12/2020 08:34

Me. There are too many reasons to list why it's still a good idea. Pointless to bother on here

"Oh its a great idea but I can't actually articulate one single reason why that is!! that's your fault though"
Could you literally be any more of the Brexit wanker stereotype?

KenDodd · 03/12/2020 08:45

One thing I've noticed over the years is that when a Leave voter does present their reasons (that in fairness can sound credible) and their reasons are then put under scrutiny, they always fall apart. Leave voters never stick around to defend a particular reason for voting Leave with facts, they always storm off in a huff (without re-examining AT ALL). This 'I'm not telling you my excellent reasoning' is just a shortcut straight to the huff.

sixthtimelucky · 03/12/2020 08:56

Didn't agree with the bureaucracy and unelected bods in the EU - we never voted for that, doesn't that actually bother anyone?

I'm so immune to be being called thick and racist by frothers when I present my 'leaver' tendencies, I know I'm not either so that's fine.

Do I think Brexit is a good idea? Probably not - wasn't mad keen on it back in 2016 on balance despite my views, less so now. But we didn't see the pandemic coming and that's kind thrown a grenade into the proceedings.

teateateateateamoretea · 03/12/2020 09:16

Didn't agree with the bureaucracy and unelected bods in the EU - we never voted for that, doesn't that actually bother anyone?

We did vote for that, and we elect people to the EU. What about the unelected bods in the House of Lords, if that sort of thing bothers you?

Cornettoninja · 03/12/2020 09:51

We did vote for that, and we elect people to the EU

... and then people voted in people who promised to actively not engage whilst inflating their bank accounts who then sold that as the EU not working for us. We were the architects of our own dissatisfaction. How thoroughly British is that!?!

I understand some of the more in depth arguments about the state of the EU finances and military policies but that’s not what Leave campaigned on and I don’t believe for one second that’s what most voters went to the polls with in mind.

Andante57 · 03/12/2020 10:03

Social media takes mis information to a whole new level

Very true Jasjas.
Nonetheless, is there any actual proof or evidence of Russian interference?
As I mentioned upthread Carole Cadwalladr had to climb down and apologise to Aaron Banks - why did she wait until the morning of the court case to do that?
It’s quite odd - maybe she wanted to extract as much money as she could from her crowd funding.

bambinaballerina · 03/12/2020 10:17

I couldn't vote in the referendum as I'm not a British citizen (yet). I'm surprised Leavers thought it would be an easy, smooth process and in less than a year we would have closed the borders, took control of the economy back, and become a world economics superpower (the empire strikes back maybe?).

There was never a Brexit plan, mainly because Brexit proponents have no idea how the EU works. They just fed lies to people, who seems strangely happy to be poorer for the forseeable future, just to be independent from the baddies across the channel. It's survivable, but I'm not sure why they thought it would be good voting for it.

One poster on the Brexit board voted Leave to keep Albanians out of the UK. I wonder if she finally clicked that Albania has never been in the EU.

Saoirse7 · 03/12/2020 10:24

@lifestooshort123

Scotland, Wales and NI are wildly underrepresented in Westminster. Their votes are basically redundant. Technically those 3 countries make up 3/4 of the UK yet have just 18% representation in the house of Commons. This is fundamentally flawed. How is this flawed when 56 million live in England and 10 million live in the other 3? Sounds spot on to me.
It is flawed because if all three of those countries wanted to vote in one single issue which would be for the betterment of those 3 countries but English MPs disagreed it would be overwhelmingly voted down.

The House of Commons only suits England.

Saoirse7 · 03/12/2020 10:26

@sixthtimelucky

Didn't agree with the bureaucracy and unelected bods in the EU - we never voted for that, doesn't that actually bother anyone?

I'm so immune to be being called thick and racist by frothers when I present my 'leaver' tendencies, I know I'm not either so that's fine.

Do I think Brexit is a good idea? Probably not - wasn't mad keen on it back in 2016 on balance despite my views, less so now. But we didn't see the pandemic coming and that's kind thrown a grenade into the proceedings.

Who are the unelected
Saoirse7 · 03/12/2020 10:28

@sixthtimelucky

Didn't agree with the bureaucracy and unelected bods in the EU - we never voted for that, doesn't that actually bother anyone?

I'm so immune to be being called thick and racist by frothers when I present my 'leaver' tendencies, I know I'm not either so that's fine.

Do I think Brexit is a good idea? Probably not - wasn't mad keen on it back in 2016 on balance despite my views, less so now. But we didn't see the pandemic coming and that's kind thrown a grenade into the proceedings.

Who are the unelected bods in the EU? Don't we vote for MEPs?

I always thought this excuse was a bit ironic, coming from a country with a Royal Family, the House of Lords and Spads like Dominic Cummings .

Labobo · 03/12/2020 10:33

DH was raging against the Gov.UK infomercials. 'Get ready for Brexit. This is what you have to do.' So basically - loads of red tape, extra work and costs to be able to trade in the way we used to trade freely in UK. No benefits but lots more hassle.

I just can't face being livid about anything else though. I am already so burned out by what Covid has done to us all.

JamieLeeCurtains · 03/12/2020 10:48

Brexit = even more red tape, and an 'adjudication committee' who are even more shadowy than the so-called 'unelected EU officials'. Slow hand clap.

KenDodd · 03/12/2020 11:06

I wonder if she finally clicked that Albania has never been in the EU

Honestly, the number of times I've heard people say they voted Leave to stop any more Muslims coming the here! The only thing that makes me happy about Brexit is when these people realise that their vote for Brexit means fewer white, European, Christians and MORE brown, Asian and African, Muslims, I really can't wait for that to earn on them, serves them right.