AIBU to ask if anyone here still thinks Brexit is a good idea?

[Sundiamond]

There was a time when the board was alive with argument around Brexit.

Does anyone still believe that Brexit is a good move and we, as a country, will gain more than we will lose?

No No No !

@1stDecember this is a delusional comment. They will be absolutely fine without our contribution (we paid the lowest contribution per capita in the EU btw - we had an amazing deal that others envied). The reduced contribution that we got back many times over every year through the economic benefits of membership.

I really wish economics was part of the national curriculum. And philosophy, to teach people critical thinking. And politics, so that they understand how their own political system and international institutions function. It is no coincidence that many MPs and successful business people study a degree in PPE and yet all three subjects are completely absent from the National Curriculum.

Well, I still believe that Brexit is the best thing for the country in a century.

Well, I still believe that Brexit is the best thing for the country in a century

How can you possibly think that?

GirlsBlouse
Would a reduction in demand for our fish by the EU be offset by an increase in domestic demand because EU fish will be too expensive? Or do we not eat much fish ?!
The UK does not eat much fish
and not much of what it likes to eat lives in UK waters

@Penners99

Well, I still believe that Brexit is the best thing for the country in a century.

Why so?

Penners99

What specifically leads you to believe that? Gives us some hope.

(Crosses fingers it isn't sovereignty)

@Penners99

Well, I still believe that Brexit is the best thing for the country in a century.

We would love you to explain (factual, not imagined) reasons why this is the case. Please do.

Lol, sure, they'd turn down the enormous chunk of their budget that we took with us

It was around 7% net, in 2019 of the total EU budget of 165 billion euro.

Germany has a GDP of 3 trillion, the total EU budget is less than 1% of EU total income.

Our contribution is very small really, to put it in perspective, a £12 billion contribution would run the NHS for around 6 weeks or build 15 miles of HS2.

I think they'll manage without us.

@jasjas1973

Lol, sure, they'd turn down the enormous chunk of their budget that we took with us

It was around 7% net, in 2019 of the total EU budget of 165 billion euro.

Germany has a GDP of 3 trillion, the total EU budget is less than 1% of EU total income.

Our contribution is very small really, to put it in perspective, a £12 billion contribution would run the NHS for around 6 weeks or build 15 miles of HS2.

I think they'll manage without us.

This. Do people not understand maths at all??

Penners99 is, i believe, taking the wee wee :)

Even basic addition. Let alone compound effects etc.,

@PolkadotGiraffe

Even basic addition. Let alone compound effects etc.,

Yep, a simple google and a rudimentary idea of how much the UK GDP is, would tell anyone that our budget contribution to have free access to a wealthy trading bloc of 400 plus million is an absolute bargain!

Sure there are areas to improve upon, CAP, CFP but these can be worked on, they will both continue regardless of whether the UK is in or out.

I presume that @BoredofBoris , as a lawyer, is fully aware that there is not just one legal system in the UK

For example (and I'm not even a lawyer ), to use one of examples used of the differences with the EU "Take forced heirship for example" : in Scotland, it is not possible to completely disinherit offspring or a spouse. Children or their descendants if they predecease (after the spouse has died) have a legal right to 50% of the movable estate divided equally amongst them (I think it's a third if the spouse is surviving, who has a right to a third themselves, but I can't remember the proportions).

And even the 2nd part of the "proof" : the fact that many European countries have no concept of beneficial ownership, which is a fundamental branch of English law ignires Scotland, for example, which is for the moment still part of the UK, as Scots law does not, as a general rule, recognise the concept of separate beneficial ownership of heritable property.

@Penners99

Well, I still believe that Brexit is the best thing for the country in a century.

Why?

Brexit is a good idea because the majority of people (that voted) voted for it. That is an exercise in democracy.

@IVFNewbie

Brexit is a good idea because the majority of people (that voted) voted for it. That is an exercise in democracy.

The majority are not always correct, history teaches us that, so your assertion Brexit is a good idea because the majority of people (that voted) voted for it is completely wrong.

@IVFNewbie

Brexit is a good idea because the majority of people (that voted) voted for it. That is an exercise in democracy.

Brexit is a popular idea. That is not the same as a good idea. That is one consequence of a democratic election. One could question, however, how democratic an election is when there is so much misinformation.

@IVFNewbie

Brexit is a good idea because the majority of people (that voted) voted for it. That is an exercise in democracy.

If there was a vote today for bringing back hanging, it would most likely go through. However it would be abhorrent, wrong and backward to do that.

Some things just aren't meant to be voted on by the general populace, that might sound anti-democratic but there are flaws with direct democracy through referendums.

One could question, however, how democratic an election is when there is so much misinformation

How do you think the best way would be to prevent misinformation? Do you think there has always been misinformation before elections and referendums?

I can quite a few things that the majority voted for initially that were v clearly not a good idea.

@Andante57

One could question, however, how democratic an election is when there is so much misinformation

How do you think the best way would be to prevent misinformation? Do you think there has always been misinformation before elections and referendums?

Social media takes mis information to a whole new level, look at QAnon, the belief in that Trump was robbed of the win! Cambridge Analytica, reports into Russian influence esp on Twitter & FB.

The laws on social media haven't kept pace with the technology, perhaps because it has been used by some politicians for their own gain?
I thinking of Trump, Johnson/Cummings but now because govt's are worried about anti vaxxers, laws might be introduced.

This is interesting re. fishing.

ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/fishing-why-is-it-such-a-tricky-issue-in-uk-eu-negotiations/

Quite apart from anything else, the sea and fish stay where they are. (Well, fish migrate, but they stay in the sea). Almost anything else bar land and resources such as coal (whose location and ownership normally can’t be disputed), is moveable. Factories, financial services, info tech, people can be relocated to almost anywhere. The sea and its fish can’t.
“Ownership” and access to the sea is based on international law flavoured by history, precedent, tradition, culture and rivalry. That’s partly why fishing is such a contentious issue.

It’s not an exercise on d3mocracy at all. The reverse.
Democracy depends upon well-informed citizens being presented with accurate, full information, and a clear understanding of outcomes. This referendum was a disgrace and would have been nullified under the Vienna Convention, had it not only been advisory.

One way of preventing misinformation would be to have journalists who dare to call out MPs on their lies. It’s a very great shame Gove was never interviewed by Paxman.