The betrayal of a public sector pay freeze

[Ori3]

Yes, we're facing the biggest economic crisis since peacetime. Yes money has to be found. But as a first measure, why instantly freeze the pay of teachers, police, firefighters, council staff and civil servants; key-workers who have risked so much during the pandemic.

These are the people holed up in a room looking after 30+ kids per day, supporting vulnerable people in social care, helping businesses access the furlough scheme, supplying universal credit, dealing with household emergencies, and tackling an increase in demand for urgent care services.

And their reward for helping to keep the show going? The certainty of a pay freeze for the next however many years and a conciliatory pat-on-the-head as added bonus. It's a joke.

And the awful irony of it all is that these are the sectors that protect most vulnerable and disadvantaged in our society, alongside looking after the nation's kids. They're the ones gluing it all together. Shut the schools and you've got a crisis. Stop social care and you've got a crisis. Get rid of the police force = crisis. Oh and firefighters? Who needs them? Council workers? Well all they do is push pieces of paper around and refuse to answer calls?! Get rid of them too.

In the words of Fight Club's Chuck Palahniuk:

“Remember this. The people you're trying to step on, we're everyone you depend on. We're the people who do your laundry and cook your food and serve your dinner. We make your bed. We guard you while you're asleep. We drive the ambulances. We direct your call. We are cooks and taxi drivers and we know everything about you. We process your insurance claims and credit card charges. We control every part of your life.

We are the middle children of history, raised by television to believe that someday we'll be millionaires and movie stars and rock stars, but we won't. And we're just learning this fact. So don't fuck with us.”

@HelloMissus

Bella I worked at the BBC. We were very divorced from anything to do with the business end of making films and TV. When I set up my own prod go I was not prepared at all

I certainly don't think you can extrapolate your experience from working in the BBC to the rest of the public sector.

The difference between public and private sector is that in the private sector the sky's the limit in general terms of earning potential.

yeah, right. tell this to millions working on nme, and zero perks beyond statutory bare minimum.

Bella I don’t think anyone should extrapolate their experience as proof of what it’s like everywhere.
But I don’t see you telling public sector workers who are saying it’s tough the same thing.

@HelloMissus

Bella I don’t think anyone should extrapolate their experience as proof of what it’s like everywhere. But I don’t see you telling public sector workers who are saying it’s tough the same thing.

Have any public sector workers extrapolated their own experiences to that of every single person who works in the public sector whatever their field?

Yes. Do you want examples? Here’s one: the poster who claimed that everybody working in the public sector did so because they really, really cared about their jobs.

BTW: excellent argument by HelloMissus.

DH is private sector. He has colleagues at other companies where there has been a 10/20% cut across the board.
I used to work in local government. Several of my friends have basically done nothing (some furloughed) since lockdown and there’s no plans to go into the office. One friend has saved tons in childcare and parking. It’s not really the time for blanket pay increases.

Bella lots of broad statements from public sector workers based on their own experience.
You let them all slide.
I didn’t make any such assertion. Yet you picked me up because it didn’t suit your narrative.

We ain’t blind or stupid you know. We can actually read.

@HelloMissus

Bella lots of broad statements from public sector workers based on their own experience. You let them all slide. I didn’t make any such assertion. Yet you picked me up because it didn’t suit your narrative.

We ain’t blind or stupid you know. We can actually read.

I didn't see anybody say that it is tough for all public sector workers. I only saw them talking about their own experience which is that their job or the jobs of people they know in the public sector isn't as cushy and secure as many in the private sector seem to believe.

You didn’t see it because you didn’t want to.

@Iamthewombat

You didn’t see it because you didn’t want to.

Why would I not want to see it?

I think it partly depends what sort of role you do in the public sector. In the nhs for example, professions (with exception of senior doctors) are paid pretty badly. I have more professional qualifications and responsibility than my DH (who agrees). We started on the same pay and he now earns 3 x what I earn. There have been multiple reviews of some staff groups and the whole system is demoralising.

There is a lot of waste in the private sector too but it doesn’t fit the narrative to report it.

Why would I not want to see it?

You’ve already been told why. Because it doesn’t suit your narrative. Give up the ‘you can’t extrapolate’ argument. You lost.

In the nhs for example, professions (with exception of senior doctors) are paid pretty badly

I hope that you’re not including finance in the definition of ‘professions’. I have met plenty of mediocre NHS finance people earning salaries that they could never hope to command in the real world.

There is a lot of waste in the private sector too but it doesn’t fit the narrative to report it.

Of course there is, but the point is that there is far, far less than in the public sector, because private businesses are accountable to shareholders.

@Iamthewombat

Why would I not want to see it?

You’ve already been told why. Because it doesn’t suit your narrative. Give up the ‘you can’t extrapolate’ argument. You lost.

In the nhs for example, professions (with exception of senior doctors) are paid pretty badly

I hope that you’re not including finance in the definition of ‘professions’. I have met plenty of mediocre NHS finance people earning salaries that they could never hope to command in the real world.

There is a lot of waste in the private sector too but it doesn’t fit the narrative to report it.

Of course there is, but the point is that there is far, far less than in the public sector, because private businesses are accountable to shareholders.

Clinical professions mainly. Monopoly employers are not good for clinical professional salaries. Was pretty shocked to see how my salary compared to US and Australian wages. Talented managers also fare better in the private sector, so we don’t keep the good ones for long.

I don’t witness lots of waste in the nhs any more, except at corporate level. Most people on the shop floor slog their guts out and always did. Admin is parked down after multiple reviews during austerity. The main difference is it’s very hard to sack anyone for underperformance or piss taking sickness. Procurement rules are also a joke, there is waste of money there.

You’ve already been told why. Because it doesn’t suit your narrative. Give up the ‘you can’t extrapolate’ argument. You lost.

Don't be ridiculous .My narrative is that people who work in the public sector do not all do the same job and that the pros and cons are very different. I don't actually work in the public sector but have worked with it and also the private sector for many years. Over that time, I have really seen things change. The jobs are far from secure in most parts of the public sector nowadays, for example. They also have to deal with constant reorganisation led by ministers who don't know what they're doing. I'm very glad I don't have to deal with it.

Of course there is, but the point is that there is far, far less than in the public sector, because private businesses are accountable to shareholders.

The fact that they are accountable to shareholders doesn't mean there is no waste ! Among the people I work with, I see a lot more waste in the private sector. The public sector have to account for every penny.

Among the people I work with, I see a lot more waste in the private sector. The public sector have to account for every penny.

Careful there! It sounds very much as if you are extrapolating your own observations.

The fact that they are accountable to shareholders doesn't mean there is no waste!

In your haste to argue everything, you appear to have missed the bit that said “of course there is”, re waste in the private sector. You’re embarrassing yourself now.

@Iamthewombat

Among the people I work with, I see a lot more waste in the private sector. The public sector have to account for every penny.

Careful there! It sounds very much as if you are extrapolating your own observations.

Except that I didn't extrapolate. I said "among the people I work with". That doesn't mean that it happens everywhere in the private sector. However, it does mean that being accountable to shareholders does not necessarily mean that there is no waste.

@Iamthewombat

The fact that they are accountable to shareholders doesn't mean there is no waste!

In your haste to argue everything, you appear to have missed the bit that said “of course there is”, re waste in the private sector. You’re embarrassing yourself now.

Okay, I will rephrase. Just because they are accountable to shareholders it doesn't mean there will far less waste. There could be more and they could be less.

Be kind people. You still do valid stuff if you work in the public or private sector. Times will be tough for some time to come and we will get through it by valuing each other rather than everyone having a pot shot.