The betrayal of a public sector pay freeze

[Ori3]

Yes, we're facing the biggest economic crisis since peacetime. Yes money has to be found. But as a first measure, why instantly freeze the pay of teachers, police, firefighters, council staff and civil servants; key-workers who have risked so much during the pandemic.

These are the people holed up in a room looking after 30+ kids per day, supporting vulnerable people in social care, helping businesses access the furlough scheme, supplying universal credit, dealing with household emergencies, and tackling an increase in demand for urgent care services.

And their reward for helping to keep the show going? The certainty of a pay freeze for the next however many years and a conciliatory pat-on-the-head as added bonus. It's a joke.

And the awful irony of it all is that these are the sectors that protect most vulnerable and disadvantaged in our society, alongside looking after the nation's kids. They're the ones gluing it all together. Shut the schools and you've got a crisis. Stop social care and you've got a crisis. Get rid of the police force = crisis. Oh and firefighters? Who needs them? Council workers? Well all they do is push pieces of paper around and refuse to answer calls?! Get rid of them too.

In the words of Fight Club's Chuck Palahniuk:

“Remember this. The people you're trying to step on, we're everyone you depend on. We're the people who do your laundry and cook your food and serve your dinner. We make your bed. We guard you while you're asleep. We drive the ambulances. We direct your call. We are cooks and taxi drivers and we know everything about you. We process your insurance claims and credit card charges. We control every part of your life.

We are the middle children of history, raised by television to believe that someday we'll be millionaires and movie stars and rock stars, but we won't. And we're just learning this fact. So don't fuck with us.”

People imagine grey suited office workers on good terms when they hear public sector. The dont think minimum wage worker with poor job security and grotty conditions. The reality is both exist.

I'm private sector, DH is a teacher.

Everyone is in a shitty situation. Much of the private sector has been pay and bonus frozen for years. y firm have made 25% redundant and it will be more. There are no jobs for them to go to.

It's not a competition to see who has it worse.

People working on COVID clinical trials outside of the NHS (e.g. university staff) are getting no increase. They have worked long hours on complex questions under a great deal of pressure, with the eyes of the entire country on them, and had to accept that their work will be ridiculed by uneducated conspiracy theorists.

There are private sector workers also working 12-14 hour days and holding things together too you know? Bank call centre staff processing CBILs and mortgage extensions for example, travel industry staff trying to refund customers with zero money coming in.
They are being rewarded by pay cuts, redundancies and not benefitting from 10-25% employer pension contributions. If the public sector were happy to have pay rises subsidised by a cut in their pension contributions that could work, but I doubt that's the case. They always have the option to leave the public sector and move to the private sector if they feel so aggrieved.

Safe jobs?! I've worked for the local authority for 13 years and supported hundreds of vulnerable and disadvantaged teenagers in that time. I can count maybe 2 of those years where I wasn't living under the threat of redundancy in yet another fucking 'restructure'. It's miserable, constantly on edge, scared to make life decisions in case this time the axe falls on me. Public sector work is not what those outside of it seem to think.

I retired from the public sector in the summer. I paid tax AND STILL DO, on my pension (let's just get that out of the way!).

I had had no pay rise for 10 years.

Just before I left, an email went to all staff asking for volunteers to leave.

Safe? No.
Not paying tax? Definitely not.
Clapping cost the government nothing, but it looked good.

public v's private

yet more division and this Govt setting people against each other !

its not a race to the bottom!

I paid tax AND STILL DO, on my pension (let's just get that out of the way!).

Do you understand the difference between where public sector and private sector wages come from? And therefore tax paid?

@StarryFire most pupils were not in schools for 14 weeks. Schools were still open for keyworker children and vulnerable pupils. They were also open during the Easter and May holidays. Hardly 6 months off. I'm not demanding a payrise nor are colleagues. We understand we have job security and had full pay. But the majority of us were still working full time for that pay from home. Please dont generalise teachers. I dont generalise all those on 80% pay who did 'nothing' during lockdown.

Whoever voted YABU, I feel sick just being on the same planet as you.

What, because we realise that lockdowns cost money?

TheKeatingFive - its not that straightforward. My DH works for a limited company that actually produces actual things. Rare in britain. All of their clients are governments round the world buying actual things from tax payers - or bodies tasked by government to buy things.

Also I am £400 out of pocket. That's what I had to fork out to teach from my home.

@Coastercat

I have worked in both public and private sectors. When times are tough, private sector workers get no increase - not ‘no cost of living increase’ - no increase at all. For years. I’m public sector now and loving it. Yes I don’t get a bonus or private medical cover but the holidays are so much better, it’s much much harder to be made redundant, the pension is INCREDIBLE, pay rises happen most years. Some public sector workers just don’t understand how good they have it!

I spent 20 years in MOD, and lately 7 years in local government. I reckon I had a pay freeze for one reason or another for at least half the time.

And in many of theose years, the private sector was ahead in terms of pay and benefits.

@baroqueandblue

Yeah it is cheesy but he delivers it well - and it's Brad Pitt!

What, because we realise that lockdowns cost money? No, because you'll idly sit by while the government gleefully announces billions and billions for military toys, but object to pay rises for public service workers (many of whom will lose jobs, homes, etc over the next couple of years) instead of standing up to the warmongers running our country, on a knife edge no deal Brexit. As ever. You pushing that YABU button is cowardly and lame.

And in many of theose years, the private sector was ahead in terms of pay and benefits.

Such a broad statement is totally meaningless. Some sectors were doing well, some weren’t. Some companies are thriving, some were going bust. Some people were being well rewarded, others weren’t.

And if we take pensions into consideration I’m not sure we can ever decide that the private sector is ‘ahead’ on benefits.

They've announced they are spending £29 million on a Festival of Brexit this week. They're laughing at us

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst

I retired from the public sector in the summer. I paid tax AND STILL DO, on my pension (let's just get that out of the way!).

I had had no pay rise for 10 years.

Just before I left, an email went to all staff asking for volunteers to leave.

Safe? No.
Not paying tax? Definitely not.
Clapping cost the government nothing, but it looked good.

It's all very well saying you paid tax while in the public sector but the reality is that doesn't add any new money into the economy, it is essentially just moving giving the government it's own money back.

You grow the economy and generate wealth in the private sector, the public sector provides a service but generally doesn't contribute anything to the economy.

Taxation on a private pension contributes to the economy, taxation on a state pension adds nothing.

[quote Ori3]@baroqueandblue

Yeah it is cheesy but he delivers it well - and it's Brad Pitt![/quote]
Ah, now that makes all the difference

Excuse me while I scuttle away to find out how I can download it

No, because you'll idly sit by while the government gleefully announces billions and billions for military toys

Personally I’m totally against that, but don’t let that get in the way of your argument.

but object to pay rises for public service workers (many of whom will lose jobs, homes, etc over the next couple of years)

Many private sector workers who’ve been laid off are losing their homes right now and I haven’t noticed much of a damn being given about that.

I'm a cop, kinda used to being treated like a cunt so it doesn't bother me too much.

Pay is still fine and it is secure, unless I do something outrageous I can't be fired.

Politically popular, Tories assume no teachers ever vote for them, which after the rudeness of Michael Gove's period as Secretary of State is a reasonable assumption to make.

The sectors are interlinked in so many ways. And the bank of england printed lots of money anyway.

@irregularegular

University staff already have no cost of living increase at the start of this academic year. Zero. And we have been working like absolute crazy. So stressful. Not sure anyone outside noticed though.

Universities strictly aren't public sector any more. They're just trying to squeeze pay down. Some are apparently close to bankrupcty, which gave the ones with piles of cash and investments the excuse they wanted.