The betrayal of a public sector pay freeze

[Ori3]

Yes, we're facing the biggest economic crisis since peacetime. Yes money has to be found. But as a first measure, why instantly freeze the pay of teachers, police, firefighters, council staff and civil servants; key-workers who have risked so much during the pandemic.

These are the people holed up in a room looking after 30+ kids per day, supporting vulnerable people in social care, helping businesses access the furlough scheme, supplying universal credit, dealing with household emergencies, and tackling an increase in demand for urgent care services.

And their reward for helping to keep the show going? The certainty of a pay freeze for the next however many years and a conciliatory pat-on-the-head as added bonus. It's a joke.

And the awful irony of it all is that these are the sectors that protect most vulnerable and disadvantaged in our society, alongside looking after the nation's kids. They're the ones gluing it all together. Shut the schools and you've got a crisis. Stop social care and you've got a crisis. Get rid of the police force = crisis. Oh and firefighters? Who needs them? Council workers? Well all they do is push pieces of paper around and refuse to answer calls?! Get rid of them too.

In the words of Fight Club's Chuck Palahniuk:

“Remember this. The people you're trying to step on, we're everyone you depend on. We're the people who do your laundry and cook your food and serve your dinner. We make your bed. We guard you while you're asleep. We drive the ambulances. We direct your call. We are cooks and taxi drivers and we know everything about you. We process your insurance claims and credit card charges. We control every part of your life.

We are the middle children of history, raised by television to believe that someday we'll be millionaires and movie stars and rock stars, but we won't. And we're just learning this fact. So don't fuck with us.”

Birdsandbeez
Of course the public sector contribute to the economy. I educate the next generation, how would private companies find an educated workforce to generate money without my contribution. Think of all the children I've taught over a career going out into the workforce highly educated. That's not a service it's a vital contribution which private companies could not exist without, they'd have to set up their own education foundations!

I work for the NHS and my job is secure. I don’t mind not having a pay rise, given the economic situation . However, what really annoys me is that MPs are getting a pay rise. That is completely wrong.

The public sector is truly a sector where people do what they do because they truly care about their role

What, everyone working in the public sector? Do you genuinely think that? I don’t. I’ve worked for two separate public sector bodies and this was far from my experience. I couldn’t get back to the private sector and away from the hordes of complaining, intransigent, entitled people fast enough. Not everyone was like that, some were great, but enough were.

Even if we assume that your opinion is true, as a thought experiment, do you believe that pay should be determined by how much you ‘care about your role’? Rather than, say, the rarity of your skills or how much you contribute to the organisation employing you?

It’s a bit like X factor contestants telling us how much they ‘want this’ and declaring that they have given 120% or whatever. It doesn’t mean that they automatically get through to the final!

@Bagamoyo1 completely agree. No payrise for public sector should definitely mean no payrise for MPs!

[quote PinkFondantFancy]@Bagamoyo1 completely agree. No payrise for public sector should definitely mean no payrise for MPs![/quote]
That ought to go without saying.
Actually - in the 90s the company I was working for was facing hard times. To survive it, we all took a temporary pay cut of 10% (it was eventually repaid) rather than people being laid off or the company folding. Except the senior managers...they took a 15% cut, and the CEO 25%.
Leaders should lead by example.

I work in the public sector. Not frontline, but nonetheless have worked nonstop since March. We have all been working from home, yes, and there was a brief period of recruitment freeze, but this was so all of our capacity could be poured into responding to the crisis and supporting the individuals and orgs we serve. Our senior management have been working evenings and weekends pretty much since lockdown began, most staff have worked longer hours at some point over the last eight months to get stuff out of the door, and I know the civil servants we work with were working shift patterns so they could essentially provide a 24 hour service. We do not progress through our pay band but do receive 1-2% cost of living pay rises each year. Realistically this amounts to about £30 a month. The theoretical 2% pay rise next year would have been wiped out for me anyway by the addition of starting to pay back my MA loan but now without a pay rise I’ll be taking home less than I am this year.

I would have liked that meagre pay rise, it’s not exactly asking for much in the grand scheme of things (and I think a £250 pay rise for those on under £24k is laughable tbh it should be more, though I’m pleased that this means those on the hand below me at work will get an increase).

On the other hand, I am very grateful to have had a job and to have continued working. The sector I serve is one of those that has been decimated by the pandemic and will take a long time to recover. In that sense, I’m lucky to not be still working in the sector and to have (relative) job security, a pension, etc.

I don’t think I’ve been hard done by this year & the work I do means I have a reasonably clear understanding of the broader impact of the pandemic on the economy. Nonetheless my job could be at risk in future spending review rounds, I’m now facing a pay freeze, which in real terms means it’ll reduce. To earn more though I’d have to be promoted - and promotions don’t really happen in my org, you have to apply for a role the next grade up. Salary negotiations aren’t a thing. Etc.

I can recognise that a pay rise right now is not necessarily needed & would look bad to the broader public. I understand the importance of the private sector & public sectors in keeping the economy going. I’m devastated for and sympathetic to those businesses that have been destroyed by the response to the pandemic & at no point have I not been bothered about this (as a PP suggested public sector workers weren’t bothered ). I recognise I’m lucky to be in a job and able to work from home. These things can all be true, I can be annoyed I’m not going to have an increase in pay next year despite working flat out this year, and still understand its shit for the private sector too. It isn’t either/or.

I'm civil service and I agree with the pay freeze. So many people are losing their jobs that we cannot countable a pay rise for the public sector who are generally more secure in their roles and the pension is a huge benefit.

Police officers will still get profession pay if they're not at the top of their scale - I don't t know anything about teachers' pay, but the majority of police will still move up the spine points.

The level of competitive martyrdom on here is scary. We are all in this position because of the decisions the government have made (pre and during COVID) yet we are turning on each other and arguing who has had the shitest time. We had years of austerity and cuts that did not work and have come out of lockdowns in higher tiers than before. We have all suffered, some more than others, but much of the time we are comparing experiences that can't be compared. We shouldn't be asking who has been the worst off, but why our government has failed to adequately prepare for something that was inevitable. Pandemics have happened all through history, I'm not sure why they thought they would just disappear for no reason.

@hamstersarse

Your argument holds no weight at all, as you can see from the private vs public wage growth attached here.

I've been expecting this backlash from the public sector, the ones who were quite happy to let businesses go under and people lose their jobs.....and now it has turned to them....different story

@hamstersarse

I understand completely why there is a freeze, I have no problem with it.

Apparently being public sector means we don’t care about the devastating collapse of the economy.

Interesting how some private sector posters on here assume public sector workers don’t care about the private sector. Don’t judge us by your own low standards.

I strongly support the govt financially propping up any struggling businesses and the furlough scheme. I care very much at the mass unemployment and the impact it has on peoples lives, homes and finances. We are public sector workers, we do understand how the economy and unemployment works.

I understand completely why there is a pay freeze.

The attitudes towards public sector workers from a few on here is disgusting. You’re talking about teachers, police officers, nurses and social workers - hardly rolling in cash and glory and perks.

Those of you who’ve been spiteful, know you’ve attacked the low paid and hard work people who prop up society - PCSOs, HCAs and care workers.

with respect, @Haenow, I don't think this is true

You’re talking about teachers, police officers, nurses and social workers - hardly rolling in cash and glory and perks.

I would imagine most people know that FRONT LINE staff have been great, but there are hundreds of thousands of public sector office workers who quite frankly have tossed off all summer, downgrading their service (if they offer one at all), and going sick 'with stress' because they have a set amount of sick days they can use and they regard them as duvet days.

It makes sense to reduce costs given the scale of economic crisis. I'm not sure why the OP reckons the civil service have had a hard time...

In the last decade: no pay rises meaning an estimated 17% real terms pay cut. Huge job insecurity: massive change of perm jobs to short term contracts. Pension good but conditions already been cut once and are likely to be cut again. Holidays good, but getting ahead of the competition in the race for a temp contract means not taking many of them.

Oh yeah and house prices doubled! But yeah roll on ANOTHER pay freeze. Something has to give.

Since 2010 there has been a decade of public sector pay restraint and thousands of public sector jobs have been lost. Private sector wages continued to grow throughout that period. Now private sector workers want to tell us that we should have more pay restraint because things are now bad for them. Can't you see you utterly unfair that situation is to many public sector workers who, after that decade of pay restraint have had to be on the frontline of the response to a public health crisis only to face even more pay restraint and very probably budget cuts that will see a good proportion of them losing their jobs in the coming years anyway. We are at serious risk of making the public sector so unattractive to work in that we won't get the talented individuals we need to make it successful and efficient.

Public sector pay restraint will not save a single private sector job all it will do is damage consumer confidence as over a million workers will tighten their belts and reduce their spending in the private sector.

It makes sense to reduce costs given the scale of economic crisis.

There are better ways to do that, even if it made macroeconomic sense. Reducing public sector pay just reduces consumer spending, which slows down recovery.

I don't think posters mean to "attack" but it's kind of hard to see why public sector workers should automatically get a raise.

A third of private sector workers have been furloughed, which can't happen to public sector workers. Yes, those within the public sector have seen a reduction in the spending power of their paypacket, just like the private sector. There is no difference.

Then, there is no escaping the flexibility you have, the fact that if you are made redundant your contracts are often pretty generous, and then the pensions which members of the private sector can only dream about.

@wink1970

with respect, *@Haenow*, I don't think this is true

You’re talking about teachers, police officers, nurses and social workers - hardly rolling in cash and glory and perks.

I would imagine most people know that FRONT LINE staff have been great, but there are hundreds of thousands of public sector office workers who quite frankly have tossed off all summer, downgrading their service (if they offer one at all), and going sick 'with stress' because they have a set amount of sick days they can use and they regard them as duvet days.

I'm not quite sure what I have read here? I really find it hard to believe that someone can be this stupid but yet here it is in black and white. What the fuck is a duvet day? Some of those 'hundreds of thousands' of public sector workers prop up your council. Where do people go when they are homeless? Who do you think employs Social Workers, Registration Services who registered the dead and deal with bereaved families? Park Rangers, Cemetery staff who dug the graves. 'Quite frankly tossed off all summer'? PUBLIC SECTOR WORKERS WERE NOT FURLOUGHED - WE WORKED THE WHOLE WAY THROUGH THIS PANDEMIC. Along with millions of other key workers a lot of who are low paid. No doubt you're one of those stupid bints who thinks that all council workers are diversity officers or some such bollocks.

Everyone should just take a look at the economy and the amount of money being spent on trying to keep everything going this year and accept that no one, public or private sector, is getting a pay rise any time soon. Does anyone actually think people should be getting raises when there is mass unemployment and redundancies? Just be thankful you have a job and get on with it!

PUBLIC SECTOR WORKERS WERE NOT FURLOUGHED - WE WORKED THE WHOLE WAY THROUGH THIS PANDEMIC.

Yes, precisely - they were all on full pay, compared to the people who were furloughed on 80% of what might have been the NMW anyway; and who when the furlough scheme comes to an end, will probably be made redundant!

As Raccoonworld says, nobody in the public or private sector should be thinking about payrises, given the debt this country is in, and especially facing 2.6 million unemployed next year!

Me and my DH both work in private sector companies where some of the workforce were furloughed and some have been working the whole way through with high workloads. Everyone has been told there will be no pay rises to stop redundancies. Everyone is fine with this, everyone is just so happy and grateful to still have a job. It’s really annoying when others in this country are sitting in secure jobs moaning about not getting a pay rise.

@TheWordWomanIsTaken - which “large organizations” do you claim are not paying “their taxes” and what is your evidence for that outlandish claim?

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@TheWordWomanIsTaken - which “large organizations” do you claim are not paying “their taxes” and what is your evidence for that outlandish claim?[/quote]
You again?
You know very well which large organisations do not pay their taxes. You're probably going to say they pay what they are legally supposed to pay no doubt.
Jog on

Cannot believe so many people have voted YABU. It’s an absolute disgrace, and yes a betrayal.

These are people who kept the show on the road through lockdown. Who went into work in the lockdown perhaps feeling unsafe and put their children in school not knowing if they were safe, or who had to carry on wfh with their kids around them while others were furloughed and “just enjoyed the change of pace, time with family, #soblessed #lockdownslowdown, #lovelywalksandsunshine”

Now basically these same people are being asked to foot the furlough bill for others.

It also has to be taken in the context of no proper public sector pay rises for 10 years or more. Corbyn was right to say 10% would just begin the catch up.

And these are talented well qualified people. I think people like to make out that the public sector are work shy layabout who couldn’t make it in the private sector. And they’d be very wrong.

but there are hundreds of thousands of public sector office workers who quite frankly have tossed off all summer, downgrading their service (if they offer one at all), and going sick 'with stress' because they have a set amount of sick days they can use and they regard them as duvet days.

^^
I find it really shocking that anyone thinks this. Public sector do not have a set number of sick days, and definitely don’t work towards this as a target or see them as duvet days - there are no duvet days in public sector jobs. You don’t even get tea bags provided at work ffs.