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If Jesus was born today ....

166 replies

gottakeeponmovin · 25/11/2020 16:59

Not meant to be digging at Christians (I am actually one myself) but I have often wondered around this time. If a woman and her husband claimed to have been visited by God and were having the second coming of Jesus would anyone actually believe them? And if a twenty something man performed miracles would we all believe that was the Son of God or would we think it was an illusionist? What would have to occur to make anyone believe that the child or man was actually Jesus or would the majority of the human race think it was the makings of a cult? Has anyone else actually wondered this? It seems to me that we believe something that, should it happen our life time we maybe would dismiss !

OP posts:
Nunoftheother · 26/11/2020 04:10

Quite. What I don't get is that we used to believe things like the god Thor made thunder, in order to explain things we didn't understand. These days anyone who still claimed that thunder is created by a god would be laughed out of town, but yet we believe in one "God" who is omnipotent. Why is that any more likely or any less ridiculous?

PolkadotGiraffe · 26/11/2020 04:13

@GurpsAgain

Also, it is a rather clumsy solution having to change water into wine. Why can't it just rain wine? 🤷‍♀️
Or rather invent the Wine Society earlier, but make it free for weekly deliveries to every house? Clearly he was not thinking "outside the box", which is surprising for someone omnipotent and omnipresent.
GurpsAgain · 26/11/2020 04:21

Indeed. Who can I lodge my complaint with?

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 26/11/2020 04:23

Those who don't believe in Jesus. I take it you don't celebrate Christmas then. You can't have it both ways deny his existence and celebrate his birthday at the same time

Of course not.

As an atheist, why would I acknowledge and celebrate pagan festivals, or occasions celebrated by any of the multitude of religions for that matter?

It always amazes me how sceptical people are about his birth when it split time in two. Jesus Christ is the single most significant person to have ever been born. If He was not, we would not tell time by it. I'm not sure what He makes of us all celebrating His birth in the ways that we do, but from what I know of Him from the bible, He would have loved a good party

Unless you are not a Christian, in which case his birth is totally irrelevant, if it even took place at all that is, since there isn't a single shred of credible contemporary evidence to suggest the Christ of the bible actually existed. And I'm sure the assertion that he 'split time' would be a source of amusement for the multitudes who don't observe a Christian calendar, which, bizarrely enough, has changed numerous times down the years itself, emphasising that it's nothing more than an arbitrary numbering system that human beings attach to supposedly significant events in time, and can altar to suit 'new' narratives as and when they see fit.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 26/11/2020 04:24

alter* obvs

GurpsAgain · 26/11/2020 04:24

I should probably pipe down tbh as I'm already on Allah's naughty list for eating bacon sandwiches and drinking wine, but I don't think he's as inclined to strike people down (or is he! Maybe I'm done for!).

GurpsAgain · 26/11/2020 04:28

Is Xmas lunch even related to traditional Christianity? Like I'm sure they didn't eat pigs in blankets in Bethlehem.

chomalungma · 26/11/2020 07:48

What I don't get is that we used to believe things like the god Thor made thunder, in order to explain things we didn't understand. These days anyone who still claimed that thunder is created by a god would be laughed out of town, but yet we believe in one "God" who is omnipotent. Why is that any more likely or any less ridiculous

I wonder what Christianity got right to be so dominant 2000 years later in the Western world? Could it have anything to do with the power of the Church so no one would dare challenge the idea of a Christian God as there would be severe consequences.

Even now, in the USA for example, I would think it would be very very hard for someone who said they did not believe in God to become President of the USA.

flaviaritt · 26/11/2020 07:49

Of course nobody would believe Him.

chomalungma · 26/11/2020 08:03

An interesting range of views on why Christianity spread.

www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/why/appeal.html

Lots of talk about the conditions of the time, how people wanted hope, how there was a message of supporting people no matter where they came from, putting words into actions when they supported those at the bottom.

Sounds like the message produced a lot of activism from people and real actions and compassionate behaviour bringing about change in society.

Yes - the Daily Mail would slaughter him, ask how he could afford it, look into his past and smear him.

stampsurprise · 26/11/2020 08:06

Those who don't believe in Jesus. I take it you don't celebrate Christmas then. You can't have it both ways deny his existence and celebrate his birthday at the same time

Yes you can. The tree, the food, the decorations are nothing to do with Jesus anyway. It's good to have festivities to get through winter and since it's time off work for most of us...

BiBabbles · 26/11/2020 13:17

The bible doesn’t say Jesus will be reborn of a woman in the same fashion He did first time around, nor does it say around what time it will happen.

The texts also didn't say the Messiah would born of a virgin the first time, that was retroactively added involving a prophecy about a young woman (almah is a young woman of childbearing age, no where else is that word translated as virgin even when in some cultural spaces it referred to one who hasn't had a child yet - those aren't the same thing) that came true later in the same section (that the threat to King Ahaz would end before the child was weaned and old enough to reject bad and choose good), but has since been called a 'double prophecy' to handwave that issue. Something people who studied the texts should know.

People have used and refitted the texts to prove other messiahs for centuries. While it could be useful to explore the thought experiment of messiahs and demigods of all faiths, if we're going to stick purely to the texts, then we have to acknowledge the texts were bent to fit Jesus (or later writer's ideas about him and many other people) first.

Jesus Christ is the single most significant person to have ever been born. If He was not, we would not tell time by it.

Time hasn't been split in two, it still continuously flows. Some societies have created social constructs, but that came from the Roman system and it spread due to European empires, but it isn't universal by a long shot. It's currently 5781 in the Hebrew calendar (some Messianic Age types - Jewish, Christian, and those influenced by them - use the '"A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by," verse to think something will happen around 6000 as it that would signify going into the Sabbath, often leaving out the end of that verse is "or like a watch in the night"), 12020 in the Holocene calendar, among the dozen or so other options available. Culture alter our perception of time, but it can't really split or change the fabric of time. We don't have enough mass for that.

Those who don't believe in Jesus. I take it you don't celebrate Christmas then.

No, I don't. I haven't since I left home nearly twenty years ago. Don't have a single good Christmas memory so it wasn't worth keeping in my life. I did spend a good ten years after that studying religious texts along the sociobiological impact holidays and traditions have and while connection to tradition and through that community and self of self can be an important part of a holiday, personal belief rarely is a defining factor over a culture as a whole.

People can make holidays mean dozens of things, people very much can have it all the ways. There are many traditions of ancestor worship or grief rituals like sitting shiva that, while some definitely believe, many people carry them out even without those beliefs for the connection they give or other benefits. Christmas can have benefits without religious belief involved.

Spidey66 · 26/11/2020 13:28

@SquirtleSquad

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/living/2788788/dr-phil-guest-who-thought-she-was-pregnant-with-baby-jesus-returns-to-the-show-and-admits-it-was-just-trapped-wind/amp/

It happens more regularly than you may think

I think the poor girl sounds genuinely mentally unwell. I hope she got appropriate help, and not paraded around on a TV show for entertainment.
ChickenNugget86 · 26/11/2020 23:32

I think Jesus would like it happening around this time, he could have become a social media star and it would be great seeing the footage as it would be filmed

LoveMyKidsAndCats · 28/11/2020 23:51

@stampsurprise yep! No one I am related to attends church (think I only know one person that does tbh) but we all celebrate xmas just because it's fun and you get time of work.

PolkadotGiraffe · 29/11/2020 00:17

@GurpsAgain

I should probably pipe down tbh as I'm already on Allah's naughty list for eating bacon sandwiches and drinking wine, but I don't think he's as inclined to strike people down (or is he! Maybe I'm done for!).
Not just Allah's naughty list, the Bible also prohibits eating pork.
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