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If Jesus was born today ....

166 replies

gottakeeponmovin · 25/11/2020 16:59

Not meant to be digging at Christians (I am actually one myself) but I have often wondered around this time. If a woman and her husband claimed to have been visited by God and were having the second coming of Jesus would anyone actually believe them? And if a twenty something man performed miracles would we all believe that was the Son of God or would we think it was an illusionist? What would have to occur to make anyone believe that the child or man was actually Jesus or would the majority of the human race think it was the makings of a cult? Has anyone else actually wondered this? It seems to me that we believe something that, should it happen our life time we maybe would dismiss !

OP posts:
chomalungma · 25/11/2020 22:06

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

I said "I take it you " dont" celebrate Christmas. That's a tad different to saying "You celebrate Christmas and you shouldn't"
Christmas is not just about the birth of Christ. It's a time for families to come together, to celebrate time together, to share gifts, enjoy company, enjoy a shared meal and to bring some light into a time of year when it's quite dark It's also conveniently at the end of the year so it helps bring the year to a close.

That's what many people celebrate at Christmas. There are people who celebrate it as the birth of Christ. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

Maireas · 25/11/2020 22:07

That was a stroke of genius by the Romans, converting the old pagan festivals to Christian ones. Love Yule, love Christmas! Boring of Cromwell to spot that, and ban it for being Pagan, though.

MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes · 25/11/2020 22:14

You’ve got to hand it to the Romans. They’d send people to take it away if not.
Duly seen and raised!

Warpdrive · 25/11/2020 22:35

OP the water into wine wasn't a trick you can compare to any David copperfield illusion.
The symbolism in the story, the audience, the context - its all there to demonstrate fulfilment of Jewish law and herald the new covenant.

To answer your original question: I think most people would reject him just like they do today.

chomalungma · 25/11/2020 22:44

To answer your original question: I think most people would reject him just like they do today

What difference does it make to accept him as the Son of God?

CorianderQueen · 25/11/2020 23:43

I mean they didn't believe him back then either if you remember - the Romans executed him...

mawbroon · 26/11/2020 00:01

I've had delusions of grandeur whilst psychotic. I am an atheist but started to believe there were messages being sent from God and one of my kids was the next Jesus. I haven't heard from God since I started on antipsychotic medication.

Because of my experience, I believe that someone along the way, had a similar experience, whether it be Jesus or someone who wrote it down.

My experience also confirmed my atheism.

LibrariesGiveUsPower45321 · 26/11/2020 00:04

“And I think he’d give short shrift to those who profess his name but deny rights to their fellow human“

He specifically addressed that very thing. He said those who say “Lord Lord” and count themselves as followers, but refuse to give water to the thirsty or clothes to the naked would be cast out to where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth.

More people who profess belief need to read that.

Matthew 25
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me,(L) you who are cursed, into the eternal fire(M) prepared for the devil and his angels.(N) 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

squeekums · 26/11/2020 00:35

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

Those who don't believe in Jesus. I take it you don't celebrate Christmas then. You can't have it both ways deny his existence and celebrate his birthday at the same time.
You mean santas birthday and chocolate holiday? religion has no part in our xmas or easter its about fun, relaxing, family, food, presents

In answer to OP, then or now, id have thought they crazy and delusional
Then or now religion is cult like to me

BlackeyedSusan · 26/11/2020 01:16

I think the responses on this thread cover it nicely. Many and various.

The whole old testament would be different to as there would have been different prophesies about the Messiah.

He didn't appear in the way the leaders of the Jews were expecting.
He said some outrageous things about them and to them. Things that would shock us if put in our context. Imagine also the equivalent of throwing merchants out of the temple for trading and taking advantage of the poor. Yet God is described as slow to anger and rich I love in other places.Or where he came from? Apparently nothing good came out of Nazareth. Or his followers some of whom were not of polite society.

I dread to think how he would disrupt our quiet lives. Would I give up my business to follow him? Or leave my family? Or home for an itinerant lifestyle?

He must have been worth following then but I probably wouldn't have.

PolkadotGiraffe · 26/11/2020 02:51

Hahahaaa no to sky fairies.

The idea that a woman could pass off a pregnancy when her husband was not the father by saying "oh, it's ok, God did it!" and the husband would be ok with that makes me laugh. Maybe someone on MN should try it and report back on how it works out?

Anybody who reckons they can turn a few loaves of bread and fish into a feast for 5000 is welcome at my house any time. We'll also happily turn up at the beach to watch a chancer show us how they walk on water.

PolkadotGiraffe · 26/11/2020 02:53

[quote LibrariesGiveUsPower45321]@borntohula

Why shouldn’t religion be mocked? Because I have every right to be religious, as much as you do to be non religious.

People are harmful, not religion itself. There’s plenty of atheists who are just as harmful as any religious person.[/quote]
@TabithaMeow didn't say you don't have a right to be religious. She said that people don't have a right to dictate what can be mocked.

Cygne · 26/11/2020 03:01

If Jesus turned up in the UK, the Mail and the Express would deride him as a lefty snowflake liberal type. After all, we can't have all that stuff about loving the poor, keeping moneylenders out of the temple, the rich man being unable to get through the eye of a needle, and forgiveness, can we?

PolkadotGiraffe · 26/11/2020 03:01

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

Those who don't believe in Jesus. I take it you don't celebrate Christmas then. You can't have it both ways deny his existence and celebrate his birthday at the same time.
Actually historical records indicate that Jesus was most likely born in March. Christians deliberately superimposed their celebrations over the traditional festivals that went back much further in history to try to eclipse them. What is now celebrated as "Christmas" was always a festival to celebrate over the winter solstice, to cheer people up through the darkest part of the year. That goes back to Stoneage times so well before Jesus was born. Easter, similarly, was superimposed over the traditional spring festivals. So people are perfectly entitled to celebrate at these times of year without your religious moralising or resentment that they don't believe your specific book of stories (*other stories are available).
PolkadotGiraffe · 26/11/2020 03:08

@cbt944

You'd be hard pressed to find three wise men these days, for starters.
🤣🤣🤣
GurpsAgain · 26/11/2020 03:15

I think there's pretty much zero change these healings ever happened. Even hundreds of years later, people were telling stories about how witches hearts jumped out of their chests when they were burned at the stake (in front of hundreds of other people who would have known this didn't happen). And stories a out Christian martyrs in the Roman arena who walked unscathed from the flames etc. Basically a load of nonsense.

GurpsAgain · 26/11/2020 03:18

I firmly believe that all religions are nonsense for the uncritically minded tbh. Of course, some people are indoctrinated, but if they don't secretly question it then quite honestly I can't take them 100% seriously.

PolkadotGiraffe · 26/11/2020 03:24

[quote gottakeeponmovin]@stclair Christians have all been waiting for a second coming for sometime also but I still think we'd be sceptical. Jehovah's Witnesses are convinced the time is near. If he came back in a shower of rain and hellfire it would be obvious but if circumstances were exactly the same would we have faith? I think for many it would be no unless something utterly extraordinary was to occur 😀[/quote]
So are the Muslims and Jews. They are essentially all part of the same sky fairy family, just disagree over who were "prophets" or "sons of God" etc.

I would encourage anybody pondering whether any religion is "true" to consider Occam's razor, and also the impossibility of a God as conceived in most major world religions existing, given the evidence we have. Life on Earth is proof that, if there is a God, it is not omnipotent, omnipresent and benevolent. At best, if it exists, it will be two of those three things. Reality proves it is not all of them.

Omnipotent and omnipresent but not benevolent: plausible, but we are screwed and why worship it?

Omnipotent and benevolent but jot omnipresent: it may be oblivious to our prayers or suffering so again, why worship it?

Omnipresent and benevolent but not omnipotent: Nice that it cares about you and is watching I suppose (although a bit creepy) but if it can't help you then what is the point?

Omnipotent and benevolent but not omnipresent: with an entire universe to oversee, it is about as likely to notice you as you give thought to the plankton in the sea when you are on a ferry.

In short, if a small amount of logic is applied it all becomes a complete nonsense. Not to mention the inconsistencies in the Bible, the counterfactual claims re. gene pools etc...

People are entitled to believe whatever they want but to get angry when others challenge their views with a little logic, science or history is unreasonable.

The fundamental difference between science and religion is that scietists actively challange their theories and try to prove them wrong. They search for evidence and proof, positive or negative, because they are searching for knowledge. Religious people get defensive if their beliefs are challenged, even though they have less evidence for them than a newly posited scientific theory usually. If their beliefs were founded on solid ground, there would be no need for this and they would welcome the challenge and exploration of them rather than be angry about it.

GurpsAgain · 26/11/2020 03:32

In short, if a small amount of logic is applied it all becomes a complete nonsense. Not to mention the inconsistencies in the Bible, the counterfactual claims re. gene pools etc...

The explanation you're seeking is that 'God works in mysterious ways'. Wink

Nunoftheother · 26/11/2020 03:53

One might almost think that a virgin birth etc. and the performance of various miracles is just as unlikely to have taken place two thousand years ago as it would be to happen today... Hmm

GurpsAgain · 26/11/2020 03:55

@Nunoftheother

One might almost think that a virgin birth etc. and the performance of various miracles is just as unlikely to have taken place two thousand years ago as it would be to happen today... Hmm
🤭
GurpsAgain · 26/11/2020 03:58

Sorry if I was a bit blunt in my above posts. I've been reading Facebook comments tonight and have read a lot of somewhat pious posts from Christians, saying things like 'if you read the bible, it says in passage xyz that God said xyz'. It makes me want to reply 'well, Zeus said...', but I usually just keep scrolling.

HelgaDownUnder · 26/11/2020 03:59

Presumably if some one was actually the son of God they would be bestowed with sufficient wisdom, charisma and personal power to engage followers.

GurpsAgain · 26/11/2020 04:01

Also, it is a rather clumsy solution having to change water into wine. Why can't it just rain wine? 🤷‍♀️

GurpsAgain · 26/11/2020 04:04

I'd be like "Sorry, Jesus, my cup runneth empty. Can you do your trick again? No, not that little puddle, the whole lake, please."

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