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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

If Jesus was born today ....

166 replies

gottakeeponmovin · 25/11/2020 16:59

Not meant to be digging at Christians (I am actually one myself) but I have often wondered around this time. If a woman and her husband claimed to have been visited by God and were having the second coming of Jesus would anyone actually believe them? And if a twenty something man performed miracles would we all believe that was the Son of God or would we think it was an illusionist? What would have to occur to make anyone believe that the child or man was actually Jesus or would the majority of the human race think it was the makings of a cult? Has anyone else actually wondered this? It seems to me that we believe something that, should it happen our life time we maybe would dismiss !

OP posts:
Frogsandsheep · 25/11/2020 17:20

Maybe I should do an AMA instead of just moaning!

GoldenOmber · 25/11/2020 17:22

To American evangelists would Jesus really:

I don't think there are that many American evangelists on Mumsnet...

nancybotwinbloom · 25/11/2020 17:22

@LaurieFairyCake

Have you watched Messiah on Netflix yet?

Totally deals with this - it's BRILLIANT

@LaurieFairyCake

I've just put this on now. Is it good?

gottakeeponmovin · 25/11/2020 17:22

No thanks Frogs I appreciate your reply. I guess that Dr Phil clip is a case in point - of course she wasn't pregnant with Jesus but I very much doubt anyone would have believed it was Jesus even if she had been pregnant with him!

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MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes · 25/11/2020 17:22

The answer to your op is that some people would believe it and would be called conspiracy theorists. Others would ask for evidence. It’s exactly the same thing that happens with psychics, and has no more validity than that.

katy1213 · 25/11/2020 17:23

The COVID police would be demanding to know how many households of shepherds were visiting, whether three KIngs count as a bubble and should inns/stables be open if Jerusalem is in Tier 2 or 3 by December 25th.

katy1213 · 25/11/2020 17:24

whoops, Bethlehem - see how religious I am!

borntohula · 25/11/2020 17:24

@katy1213

The COVID police would be demanding to know how many households of shepherds were visiting, whether three KIngs count as a bubble and should inns/stables be open if Jerusalem is in Tier 2 or 3 by December 25th.
GrinGrin
GoldenOmber · 25/11/2020 17:27

@katy1213

The COVID police would be demanding to know how many households of shepherds were visiting, whether three KIngs count as a bubble and should inns/stables be open if Jerusalem is in Tier 2 or 3 by December 25th.
"You're travelling on to EGYPT with a NEWBORN? Don't you know there's a global pandemic on? What possible reason could you have for such irresponsible behaviour?.... oh well THAT'S a bit of a drip feed Hmm"
MerchantOfVenom · 25/11/2020 17:29

Evangelicals and right-leaning ‘Christians’ in the US would hate Jesus if he arrived now, dismissing him as a lefty-Liberal socialist.

LaurieFairyCake · 25/11/2020 17:29

There are literally dozens of examples in the Bible where we're told to use question everything - that we have to think and not follow blindly

'Doubting' Thomas is the best example - Jesus encourages him to test him and put his hands inside his body. Thomas then goes on to start a church where Paul writes to him very fondly.

nancybotwinbloom

  • it starts in Syria (and is subtitled) but swiftly goes to English. The ambiguity is fantastic - so many bits where you really wonder is he deluded/a fraud/the real thing
peakotter · 25/11/2020 17:30

I think what pp said a very true. Most people didn’t believe at the time.

My belief in Jesus isn’t just based on the evidence in the Bible, although I find it very compelling because the eye witnesses often went on to die for their beliefs.

I also believe because of the changes I’ve seen in people who have become Christians, the feeling of the Holy Spirit, and evidence of a creator from science. The life of Jesus probably wouldn’t have convinced me at the time unless I met him personally and repeatedly. I would have been a doubting Thomas until I’d evaluated all the evidence myself.

WannaBBetter · 25/11/2020 17:31

@gottakeeponmovin this is a question often raised in church sermons etc and often thought of. The bible predicts a second coming of Christ but not necessarily in the same way at all. Society really hadn't changed that much, it's a little more developed but it still deals with the same old problems folk had 2000 years ago. The bible itself shows history repeats or rather people make the same mistakes time and time again... But even through that, God still forgives and basically wants a relationship with us.
So in answer to your question it would be a repeat albeit modernised version of the original story IF it were to happen that way (unlikely according to the bible).
I don't see this as a dig at christianity at all just mere curiosity, you could ask the same question about Mohammed, i. e. If a man is went for a walk and came back saying he's got instructions from God that all women are to cover up, you can have several wives etc etc we'd all think 'rubbish'... Someone's getting insecure with feminismistic power.
It's good to ask questions, that's what Jesus did with the Jews and it helps others understand and want to know more.

RednaxelasLunch · 25/11/2020 17:35

@WoolieLiberal nailed it.

It would be just the same reaction he got from the world in the original story/history. We as humans and humanity have not changed at all. The skeptic, the pious religious types, the tax collectors, even the disciples.. all the reactions of the people who interacted with Jesus would be repeated. There would be modern day contexts but the underlying dynamic would be the same.

An interesting question is to look at the 60s and 70s when the "gurus" were really trendy in the West.. how would you know if any of them were really Jesus or not?

gottakeeponmovin · 25/11/2020 17:36

@ thank you @peak and @WannaBBetter . In the same way as frog has answered I think if I asked my vicar that question he would think it was an interesting concept and not accuse me of getting at Christians. I also wonder if I would have been a doubting Thomas. I am aware the second coming is likely to be different - but it does make me wonder.

OP posts:
TwentyViginti · 25/11/2020 17:36

Mumsnet is very anti-Christian

Never thought of MN as the antichrist tbh.

thepeopleversuswork · 25/11/2020 17:39

I think Jesus, if he manifested in the way he is supposed to have done in the Bible, would be treated like a charlatan today (raising people from the dead, urging people to give up their jobs to follow him etc).

And rightly so. There's not much difference between the way Jesus in the Bible behaves and L Ron Hubbard or any other cult leader.

But honestly the actual Jesus didn't do any of these things so its a bit of a moot point. All we know about the real Jesus is that he was a rabbi and political activist. And as we know very little about him other than what's in the gospels such as what his beliefs and politics were its impossible to say.

BiBabbles · 25/11/2020 17:40

It's not like he went round doing quirky magic tricks or something.

His first miracle was turning water into wine at a party, which I consider a quirky trick. Then there's the whole cursing a fig tree that the texts openly admits wasn't in season to not bear fruit ever again and sending pigs down a cliff to drown themselves because demons. Not all his miracles were that great, the latter would probably get some animal rights activists on his heels.

Some illusionists have done walk on water, and there are charlatans that 'cure' things with spectacular messy visuals of 'pulling out cancer' and all that. We have the televangelists that 'spread the message' with some of these cures with dramatic testimonies. It's likely something that has always happened - there were dozens of Messianic cults at the time Jesus was alive and many since, before getting into how it's shown up in other cultures.

There are also places in the world today where women get certified virgins, even after having a child, to deal with BS. I think there is an element of that to a lot of old stories of part-god children...

I agree that this thought experiments should be applied to any religion that has demigod and prophets performing miracles rather than just Christians, but I find Christianity is the one most here know best so I'm not sure people would get if I used the "Messiah Schneerson" movements as an example (he died in 1994, some thing he didn't really and will somehow fulfill the criteria to Messiah, others think he was a potential Messiah, but having died never became that. In some variants of Judaism, there are potential Messiahs in every generation).

RednaxelasLunch · 25/11/2020 17:42

@Frogsandsheep yes you should!

gottakeeponmovin · 25/11/2020 17:43

Exactly @BiBabbles - if you saw someone curing the lane would you actually believe they were lane at all or otherwise that it was a medical co-incidence

OP posts:
gottakeeponmovin · 25/11/2020 17:44

Lame obviously bloody autocorrect

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BoreOfWhabylon · 25/11/2020 17:44

@LaurieFairyCake

Have you watched Messiah on Netflix yet?

Totally deals with this - it's BRILLIANT

It was indeed brilliant!
Butterer · 25/11/2020 17:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Happymum12345 · 25/11/2020 17:44

I like to think that I would believe Jesus was the son of God, if he was born today. I think so many people are sceptical and untrusting in this day and age, more so than 2000 years ago - & rightly so. The Messiah on Netflix is really good!

OwlBeThere · 25/11/2020 17:47

There’s a book called The Last Day by Glen Kleier which deals with this subject. It’s an interesting read.

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