To think it's a straight choice between keeping your parents and grandparents safe and "a normal Christmas". You can't have both.

[PrincessNutNuts]

If members of your household go to work/school/the gym/the pub/ the shops or anywhere indoors with other people,

And if you don't all self-isolate for 14 days before Christmas,

Then you risk giving Covid to your parents and grandparents if you mix with them indoors during those 5 days.

That's just a fact isn't it?

YANBU Yes, you will be risking unknowingly endangering your loved ones,

YABU ???

STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THEM!

Yeah, maybe just lock them up in a box til they come to the end of their lives.

Clearly subsisting for as long as possible more important than any kind of quality of life or fulfilment of human needs/pleasures.

@Penners99

Give your elderly relatives the gift of life this Christmas.

STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THEM!

In most cases I think you’ll find it’s they who have given you the gift of life and reversal is impossible.

You don’t unilaterally stay away, you treat them like intelligent adults and ask them what they want.

Do you realise that places like Greater Manchester have had essentially T3 restrictions since July ?
So from July till potentially Easter, when there's talk of "going back to normal" you expect people to not see their relatives ? Almost a year ?
Do you think elderly relatives should sit at home alone for Christmas ?
Maybe, just maybe they are fully functioning, intelligent adults who are able to make their own choices re Christmas ?

Also, what hopsalong said is exactly right. Don't get all this moral relativism with Covid.
We take risks every day of our lives. Elderly people take risks by going out in the cold, or when it's icy etc. Do we tell them they must never leave the house ?
But apparently we must, must isolate everybody from Covid, no matter what.

@Penners99

Give your elderly relatives the gift of life this Christmas.

STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THEM!

HES IN MY BUBBLE

Thats the problem with these statements (and i know posters don’t mean anyone whose parents live with them or are cared for by them or are in a bubble) they are just so general

So I won’t kill my dad when i see him on Sunday but I absolutely will on Christmas day ...gotcha

@Penners99

Give your elderly relatives the gift of life this Christmas.

STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THEM!

This is such horse shit that it’s almost not worth replying to. But I’m bored, so here goes.

1. my elderly relative has a mind of her own. I will be guided by her as to whether she wants to see me or not.
2. my elderly relative is very very close to the end of her life anyway. I could STAY THE FUCK AWAY for her to die in January anyway. She only just made it through pancreatitis in July, having not seen any of her family for months.
3. I have to have Covid to pass it on to her. I’ve already had it, so although we don’t have much information about how long immunity lasts, the chances of me contracting it again within 6 months is fairly low.
4. Covid is not a death sentence for elderly people. Even if she contracts it, she’s more likely to survive it than not.

You don’t unilaterally stay away, you treat them like intelligent adults and ask them what they want.

Exactly.

I wonder how many suicides of lonely people there will be on Christmas Day?

You don’t unilaterally stay away, you treat them like intelligent adults and ask them what they want.

If I choose not to see my parents (and it doesn't matter whether the reason is good, bad or downright stupid) then that's up to me. I'm not going to ask them if they want to see me or not, because my reason will still hold. People should surely only meet up if both of them want to?

Some elderly people have already had covid, so I guess they think seeing younger relatives is low risk (yes I know you can get it again but with about 25 documented cases worldwide, lets not get risk out of proportion).

Also so-called elderly people can pass it onto younger people, too. It doesn't just pass in one direction.

Anyway, just had an email to say that DS' 6th form college is doing remote learning for the last week of term to save Christmas. Such a load of nonsense (though to be fair they've handled covid very well and have only had three cases). Why can't people compromise just once. Yes we missed Easter as well but it's one year. That's all.

People should surely only meet up if both of them want to

If you decide you don't want to see your parents because you don't like them, fair enough. It's also fair enough if you think the risk toyou is too high to see them.

But it's not up to you to decide on the risk to your parents. That's their call, and theirs alone.

@RedskyAtnight

You don’t unilaterally stay away, you treat them like intelligent adults and ask them what they want.

If I choose not to see my parents (and it doesn't matter whether the reason is good, bad or downright stupid) then that's up to me. I'm not going to ask them if they want to see me or not, because my reason will still hold. People should surely only meet up if both of them want to?

This comes down to this business of it being "for their own good".

If you don't want to see them for your own good, that is up to you to decide.

we're 2 sets of 2 adults, my parents are early 70s, not sure they'd like to be defined as "elderly".

So we shall have xmas together. None of us work outside the home, the only places we go are supermarkets and oh the library or the doctors.

Us younger 2 will probably avoid the restaurants when they open up again in December. but yes we will be meeting up for 5 days. But also being sensible. no hugs beyond start/end with masks on. Sit separate sofas/different bathrooms. We shall do our best but also want to enjoy xmas.

@Penners99 I very much look forward to reading your thread about what its like to volunteer for the Samaritans on Christmas Day. Being as how you are expecting people to spend Christmas alone im taking that as a given. The Samaritans usually have 11,000 calls on Christmas Day alone. 400,000 throughout December.

But it's not up to you to decide on the risk to your parents. That's their call, and theirs alone.

But if they got ill/hospitalised/died it would be me picking up the pieces. And living with the responsibility.

And if I think someone (anyone) is doing something risky I will try to dissuade them, and I certainly wouldn't facilitate it!

MercyBooth
I have respect for the elderly, too much to put them at risk. When SAGE advisors are saying stay away from non-bubbled relatives (despite the Boris burble) then I will err on the side of caution.
I am also in the "at-risk" population and I am very aware of the possibility of a third spike in Jan/Feb 21.
Please, think of the future and not just instant gratification over this holiday period.

I shall see my parents in their 70s. We may even have a hug. There will certainly be no social distancing and no masks. We will have a normal day enjoyed by all. They are old enough to make up their own minds. They want to live what life they have left. Not just endure it. Wise choice!

I have respect for the elderly, too much to put them at risk

If you had respect for the elderly, you'd have respect for the fact that they're capable of their own opinions, their own risk assessment, and their own choices.

As a person who's on their way to being elderly, my eyes are rolling into the back of my head at your sanctimoniousness.

Please, think of the future and not just instant gratification over this holiday period.

Are you another who has forgotten that Covid isn’t the only killer in town?

I wonder how people choosing to distance themselves from elderly relatives will feel if this turns out to be their last Christmas (for totally non Covid reasons)?

Please, think of the future and not just instant gratification over this holiday period

Thinking of the future is exactly why ill be seeing my grandmother at Christmas. She’s 90, she doesn’t have much of a future left and she’s desperate to see her family, after nearly dying in July without having seen any of them for months. Her husband died in February, it’s her first Christmas without him and she’s been miserable on her own this year.

The guilting people on this thread for making perfectly legal choices is awful!

"The future" is never a guarantee, even without covid

@WeCanFlyHigher

Please, think of the future and not just instant gratification over this holiday period

Thinking of the future is exactly why ill be seeing my grandmother at Christmas. She’s 90, she doesn’t have much of a future left and she’s desperate to see her family, after nearly dying in July without having seen any of them for months. Her husband died in February, it’s her first Christmas without him and she’s been miserable on her own this year.

Poor lady.

Do whatever makes Christmas bearable for her.

My brother, SIL and I are able to WFH and isolate for 14 days before seeing each other and my elderly parents at Christmas for the first time indoors since March.

However they are likely to have medical appointments in that last couple of weeks, so will be more of a risk to us than we are to them. We won't be hugging until we have a vaccine, but are willing to share a room for a few hours several days in a row - aware we are still taking a risk.

@Penners99

Give your elderly relatives the gift of life this Christmas.

STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THEM!

How old is elderly?

I can't see my grandparents. My final two died during this year. I'd not seen them for months due to Covid. I wasn't allowed to go to the funeral of one due to the numbers restrictions.

My parents are late 60s. Not sure they class themselves as elderly tbh. They are certainly not sound kind and capable of making the decision for themselves. They already already in a childcare bubble for my 7y nephew who goes to school anyway.

My MIL is early 70s and again I don't think she'd say she was elderly just yet. And again, most definitely on sound mind. We will be seeing her for definite - she'll be here Christmas Day. My FIL died in April. The alternative is that she spends it alone? In what way would that be better for her mental health??

Aragog A poster on another thread claiming to be an NHS worker did comment on the “boring mental health” issues facing people this year. I was stuck for words at that.

The mental health of everyone is so, so important and should not be minimised

yes I know you can get it again but with about 25 documented cases worldwide, lets not get risk out of proportion

Ah but this is mumsnet where almost everyone knows at least two people who've definitely had Covid twice! On a different thread this week so one stated they know someone who has had it three times!!