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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A visor is not a face covering

173 replies

Oneliner · 24/11/2020 23:39

Just that, AIBU?

OP posts:
GertieBassett · 26/11/2020 19:14

[quote Oneliner]@GertieBassett out of nothing more than sheer curiosity, where have you got that 70k figure from?[/quote]
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NewsHealth
Ineffective flu vaccine added to 50,000 extra deaths last winter, ONS says
Human suffering and lost lives over winter 'predictable, preventable and shameful', fuel poverty campaigners say

Alex Matthews-King
Health Correspondent
Friday 30 November 2018 10:51

Flu jabs have been changed this year to ensure wider protection (PA)
The Independent employs over 100 journalists around the world to bring you news you can trust. To support truly independent journalism, please consider making a contribution or taking a subscription.

The flu vaccine’s failure to protect against some of the key strains of the infection contributed to more than 50,000 “extra” deaths in England and Wales last winter, according to data from the Office of National Statistics.

It was the worst winter on record for more than 40 years, with the 1975-76 season being the last time deaths climbed so high above the expected levels.

The NHS was rocked by a record winter crisis in early 2018, with a massive rise in flu cases and sub-zero temperatures triggered by the Beast from the East storm, which added further to death rates.

Watch more
Who needs the flu vaccine this winter and where can you get it?
Despite protecting against the potentially serious "Aussie flu", officials said in January that the vaccine which had been widely used was not effective against some of the more prevalent strains of the virus affecting the UK.

The impact on death rates was apparent as early as March, when experts warned the government must “urgently investigate” a spike of 10,000 deaths in the first weeks of 2018.

But the ONS data, spanning December to March, shows that this trend continued to rise.

A larger rise has not been seen for 40 years (Statista)
“The number of excess winter deaths in England and Wales in 2017 to 2018 was the highest recorded since the winter of 1975 to 1976,” said Nick Stripe, from the ONS Health Analysis and Life Events team."

He added: “It is likely that last winter’s increase was due to the predominant strain of flu, the effectiveness of the influenza vaccine and below average winter temperatures.”

Doctors have warned that the pressures, which carried on into summer and beyond, thanks to a major heatwave, mean the coming winter will be “more challenging than the last”.

NHS at 70: demonstration and celebration march to mark anniversary
Show all 18

This is not helped by the fact that the additional £20.5bn funding pledged to the NHS to help meet rising demand from an ageing population will not begin to reach services until April 2019.

However, early signs suggest the flu season this year will be less severe and the NHS has also adopted a more effective flu vaccine which provides protection against a wider range of influenza.

The ONS data shows that deaths were highest in women and those over 85, but that death rates doubled in males under the age of 64 compared with the year before.

Daily death rates exceeded the average across the last five years on every day except the 25 March, the ONS says.

Support free-thinking journalism and attend Independent events
Fuel poverty campaign group National Energy Action said the figures were a tragedy that do not tell the full story of millions of others falling ill and suffering because of damp, cold and inadequate housing.

“Today’s excess winter death figures should be a huge shock to the system,” said NEA chief executive Adam Scorer. “The cost in human suffering and lost lives is a tragedy. The cost to the NHS is significant and largely avoidable.

“Predictable, preventable and shameful. We seem to have accepted excess winter deaths to be as much a part of winter as darker evenings.”

Economists said the figures show the “grim reality” of the flu outbreak, and are particularly concerning as the ONS revealed earlier in 2018 that decades of improvements in life expectancy “ground to a halt” this year.

“This follows some other recent winters when seasonal deaths have been high,” said Dr Veena Raleigh, senior fellow at the King’s Fund. “With an ageing population, the worry is that this could be the start of a trend of periodically high winter deaths.”

“The evidence suggests that stalling life expectancy is due to several factors, including flu-related deaths and a slowdown in improvements in mortality from diseases such as heart attack and stroke.

“National agencies have so far been slow to respond to these disturbing recent trends. Public Health England has been commissioned to investigate the slowdown in life expectancy and it is imperative that their findings are acted upon.”

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knittingaddict · 26/11/2020 19:25

I counter with this GertieBassett

fullfact.org/online/october-2020-flu-covid-pandemic/

Where is your info from?

PhilCornwall1 · 26/11/2020 19:42

I do think that exemption from mask wearing should require a medic's signature,

I agree with this. I had to go to hospital today and can't wear one. I was chatting to the specialist I was seeing about masks and told them the reason why I can't wear one. They completely agreed with me and their words were "absolutely no chance you can wear one". I did joke and said "can you give me a letter to say that" and they said that people with exemptions should have proper documentation to stop the abuse they are getting.

knittingaddict · 26/11/2020 19:47

@GertieBassett

I'm fucking sick of this shit! Covid is nothing more then Flu!! How many people do you know that have died of Covid? I know 2 people that now have terminal cancer due to their appointments being cancelled time and again due to fucking Covid. I also know a nurse that assures me that the NHS is NOT overwhelmed with Covid and cannot understand the scaremongering! I'm pissed off and don't give a shit if you all slate me. Get a fucking GRIP!!
As soon as you mention your nurse friend who doesn't know what the fuss is all about, you've lost the argument. It's what all the conspiracy theorists say. It's a dog whistle to all your fellow covid deniers on the net and not to be taken seriously by any thinking person.
GertieBassett · 26/11/2020 19:53

Baa

wildchild554 · 26/11/2020 19:55

@Ifeelsuchafool tbh shielding is not always an option. I'm on shielding list, I still have to go out to get groceries, I can't get everything online nor can I afford to, I need to get my medication and over the counter painkillers which I have to take daily, and no the doctors won't prescribe them unless absolutely desperate due to shortages and people panic buying, they've done it for me 3 times since march when this began. I have to get things like gas and electric, I can't top up a load in advance and I still have to pick up my kids from school. I can't wear a mask without a severe asthma attack. When I did shield in the first lockdown it was absolute hell, couldn't get enough painkillers to keep me going so was in constant pain, next to no sleep through the pain and other medical issues that are on going, still don't know what it is because still haven't had my first proper appointment with specialist, often did without food because I couldn't get a delivery slot just to make sure my kids could eat. Also because the kids are in school, I am more at risk of catching it from my children being in school than the quiet little shops I go to for my shopping, even the specialist has said that during one my phone appointments.

I am pretty certain the vast majority of those not wearing a mask are legitamitely doing so because the amount of abuse I have had, even when I have tried wearing one and had to rip it off and take my inhaler due to a severe asthma attack, I even got a load of abuse then.

Facelikearustytractor · 26/11/2020 20:11

Hmm and you are not the police.

Oneliner · 26/11/2020 20:15

@GertieBassett you realise that wasn't 70k...

OP posts:
SheepandCow · 26/11/2020 20:59

@GertieBassett

Baa
Moo.
Ifeelsuchafool · 26/11/2020 21:01

@wildchild554 I'm sorry that you don't have the support you obviously need but are you absolutely sure you're accessing all the help available? I'm inundated with letters and emails from the local council because I'm on the extremely vulnerable register. Fortunately I have plenty of family and friends to pick up shopping etc. and so I don't have to go out when shielding if I don't want to. And maybe I am very lucky to live in an area where we have a good coyncil.
The scary part is, of course, when I'm not shielding and have to return to work. I'm lucky to have work, I realise that (though I'm on very little more than minimum wage so work 2 jobs over six days to make ends meet) and even luckier to be eligible for furlough in both cases. However, going back to work, one job being in retail, I'm terrified when forced to deal with people who swan in, unmasked and become abusive when I politely ask if they could please put on a mask, lecturing me on their right to be comfortable and my consequent lack of right to be safe, being a paid lackey there purely to make sure they get what they want. And I will continue to politely ask because there are those who remove their masks in between shops and genuinely forget to put it back when they enter the next one and they're always obliging pleasant and apologetic, and then still others who huff and puff and grumble but then put one on anyway and proceed to wander around the shop without any obvious difficulty.
So forgive me if I'm not convinced that most people who can are wearing them.
I guess we all see things from our own perspective.
As I said, I have every sympathy with those who have a genuine problem. I just think exemptions should be authorised by medics and have some kind of card to carry, not stating reasons obviously, just an official stamp.

starlight13 · 26/11/2020 23:02

Nothing is really working though is it as we have mostly all just been put into the top 2 tiers.
Anyone who is scared of the virus should stay locked up and the rest of society just get on with it, helping those who need to shelter.
A true picture of what this government's course of action for this pandemic has been will soon become apparent and we will live with their poor decisions for decades to come.
Sorry, op I've vastly gone off point but they have done the equivalent of a carrying out a major piece of surgery on what was only ever a small graze (which would have healed itself eventually).
You vote tory, you get tory. Let's hope that people don't forget this when the ballot box is in front of them again.

Tessabelle74 · 26/11/2020 23:26

Added protection ASWELL as a mask, useless on their own

Mamanyt · 26/11/2020 23:38

@Nicknacky

And who made you the face covering judge?

People need to start minding their own business.

No, visors are not face coverings, unless they are full-face visors that come down below the chin, and even then, masks should be worn under them.

And the OP becomes the face covering judge when some random person not wearing proper face covering is breathing all over her, making it most definitely her business.

Over here, people are real big on "Freedom of Expression," and one of my friends once remarked, "Your freedom to express yourself ends when your fist is about 10 cm from the end of my nose." It's the same principle.

ConstancetheGardener · 27/11/2020 00:06

I am aged over 60 and have severe asthma. If I need to go shopping I can cope with a mask on for about 20 minutes , enough time to pop in and out of shops. I also work in a supermarket and there I wear a visor as I cannot cope with wearing a mask for an 8 hour shift doing hard physical work ( filling shelves) Legally speaking , I am exempt from wearing a mask but I do wear a visor to try and protect me and the customers to some extent and to preempt any comments from the self appointed Mumsnet type Covid police . I also ensure that I wash my hands regularly and socially distance although it is very apparent that as soon as mask wearing became law then social distancing by most customers was forgotten. Oh , and as soon as the shop closes none of the staff wear masks or visors to do their work and yet not one of the 180 people working in my store has yet gone down with Covid . Please do not criticise shop staff who have worked throughout the pandemic to keep the nation fed , we may not be perfect but we are doing our best .

Discobay · 27/11/2020 00:42

My kids and their teachers wear masks all day long, no exceptions. They cope

wildchild554 · 27/11/2020 06:23

@Ifeelsuchafool I did try accessing help but didn't get any till when lockdown was ending, which was a bit late really, a few people I know have been through similar or haven't shielded because they couldn't get help. Having something official would be nice and make me feel better and safer when going out. I do think it probably depends on the area your in though. I know an older lady on my street who is scared to go out because the abuse she's had for not wearing one. It can be quite rough round here maybe an official stamp would stop this if it was publicised well so people knew what it meant. I am lucky enough that people in 2 of the shops I use are on my side and will intervene if an issue arises.

SueEllenMishke · 27/11/2020 07:35

My kids and their teachers wear masks all day long, no exceptions. They cope

Are they teaching in a room designed for 80+ people meaning the 20 or so students are spread out across a large area? Are they being recorded so their lesson can be shared with those unable to attend?
If I were a mask my students wouldn't be able to hear me and it would affect the recording so I wear a visor ... which is better than nothing.

knittingaddict · 27/11/2020 10:52

@GertieBassett

Baa
So no indication of where you got your info from then? Just "Baa"?
Ifeelsuchafool · 27/11/2020 11:17

@starlight13 "Anyone who is scared of the virus should stay locked up". Easier said than done. I actually quite like having a roof over my head and being able to eat.
As I said in a previous post, I'm grateful that I have employment and grateful for the help I've received during lockdowns but I neither expect nor want to be allowed to exist on handouts for the rest of my life. Hmm

LovelyIssues · 27/11/2020 14:08

It's actually better then a face covering.

knittingaddict · 27/11/2020 14:10

@LovelyIssues

It's actually better then a face covering.
No, it's not.
Pollygetthevodkaout · 30/11/2020 18:36

@Givemeabreak88

Tbf I am exempt from wearing a face mask and got told on my local Facebook page that I should be wearing a visor instead then.
Your local fb page sounds brutal. I work in retail and have heard it all. Apparently" God will protect me", oh and its the doctors that are making it up ! You really don't need to wear a visor if your exempt please don't feel intimidatedFlowers.
Turbotastic · 30/11/2020 20:28

I have an unavoidable long train journey coming up in a few weeks time and I won't be wearing a mask or a visor.

I am exempt from wearing a mask but can tolerate a visor for very short periods in shops, absolutely impossible that I will be able to wear one for 4+hrs on a train. I'll wear it on the platforms while I'm waiting to change trains but that really is the best I can do in the circumstances. I'm absolutely trying the best I can and have no wish to be selfish but my medical condition is not my fault and I have an extremely low risk lifestyle so it's very unlikely I'll pass anything on.

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