To think these are the stats noone talks about

[TMIincoming]

Just that really. Deaths aren't really any higher than usual and hospital beds are less occupied than usual. Or are people going to say these figures aren't accurate

I think things dont have to be seen as extremes like made up conspiracy or we are all going to die.

But if every ICU bed has a covid patient in then there is no ICU recovery beds for elective cancer surgery, no beds for car crashes, no beds for strokes or heart attacks.

So there is 10 icy beds in the documentary in Wales. They increased it 40 ish.

Say we also chose to add in no lockdown and they needed 80 icy beds. You have a car crash and need cutting out. Will there be a bed for you?

Or 40 older people rock up at A&E dieing at the same day. Who gets to die on a trolly in the corridor. That is what they was trying to prevent. You dont need to like it or approve by that was what they was planning against.

That was in response to the link @GreyishDays posted which doesn't show anything like what it was being suggested to show

Have you checked how The Spectator is defining them?

Benjamin Disraeli said, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Don't confuse statistics with causal facts.

Yep, these charts completely ignore several things:

1. The percentage of beds occupied is meaningless when we know that the number of beds has been increased.

1. This is the infection rate with restrictions in place. Without these measures in place, the number of people in hospital would likely be much higher.

1. Many beds would normally be full of people who are currently not being treated. There's a massive backlog. Without the current restrictions, even fewer beds would be available for people with Cancer, heart conditions etc.

I honestly don't understand people who claim that "lockdown hasn't worked", because the infection rate is still high. Lockdown is not supposed to eliminate the infection; it is to reduce its spread. There will still be plenty of cases, even with lockdown.

If you had a minor ish stroke and NHS could 50:50 save you outside of covid times, would you be happy to slowly die on a trolly because ICU was full? Because that would have been someone's loved one. Ok everyone dies but everyone wants some dignity in death. It's not dignified to die on a hospital trolly

@Legoandloldolls

If you had a minor ish stroke and NHS could 50:50 save you outside of covid times, would you be happy to slowly die on a trolly because ICU was full? Because that would have been someone's loved one. Ok everyone dies but everyone wants some dignity in death. It's not dignified to die on a hospital trolly

You have fallen for the propaganda hook line and sinker!

How many people have died on hospital trolleys (bearing in mind there are news articles about that happening every year)

as pp has said - they have mentioned in several newspapers (BBC, Guardian & Independent) that they have changed the number/proportion of IC patients cared for by nurses have increased from 1 to 2 - at least , operations have been cancelled -the waiting lists for operations are higher than they have ever been. Not all covid patients are in ICU all of the time - as they recover they are placed into covid wards (these have been filmed on TV) - basically hospitals are considered unsafe unless essential so the numbers for other issues are down -
& annual check ups are being done by video or phone (with a lot of consultants I imagine crossing their fingers that dangerous symptoms are not being missed). There is apparently an increased death rate from other issues than covid & this is not surprising - again this has been reported by multiple sources of news .

didn't we have this thread yesterday?

@Sparklfairy

I never understand this. Months ago people were saying we need to go into lockdown to keep beds free, deaths down and not overwhelm the NHS.

We went into lockdown, beds are free, deaths are lower than predicted, NHS isn't overwhelmed...

Yet this is somehow proof that lockdown doesn't work

You can’t argue with stupid.

YANBU
They need to admit at this point that this is a flu but also recognise that we have no way of knowing that there won't be another zoonotic virus soon. The next pandemic could be worse. We won't have the money to deal with that though. So I'm not naive. I take viruses seriously but at this point, masks and handwashing and personal choice to stay away/not attend are the way to go.

Well, on the face of it our Trust's bed aren't full - Physical rehab/mental health/dementia wards. But most of our wards have had to close beds because we have COVID positive patients, so we can't have the usual number of beds in a bay, or because we have COVID positive staff, so not enough staff to safely run the beds.

We've been at winter pressures for a month, and it's only November. But carry on minimising, please do.

God help me!

There are so many explanations for this... that are explained on the ONS site, on the many podium talks, across all sorts of valid, informed discussion sites!

Taking the bald data and presuming aything about it leads to all sorts of starnge assumptions --> conspiracy theories lie!

@pointythings thank you for telling us this -I never considered the logistics of how this must affect the hospitals in that way -down to the wards.
Whatever work you do there - thank you

@CuriousaboutSamphire

God help me!

There are so many explanations for this... that are explained on the ONS site, on the many podium talks, across all sorts of valid, informed discussion sites!

Taking the bald data and presuming aything about it leads to all sorts of starnge assumptions --> conspiracy theories lie!

So you think the financial and other costs of these restrictions are justified and proportionate to the virus threat?

@TMIincoming

You know that doesn't mean that current capacity has increased three to four fold? It means they could, if they needed to. Not that they have, which is a pretty relevant fact when looking at the stats above compared to other years.

"Boards now have the capability to provide 585 ICU beds, increased from 173, and continue to plan towards being able to quadruple capacity to more than 700 beds if required."

Doesn't sound to me as though you're really interested in a reasoned discussion here, OP. You asked people for sources of information to the contrary of your opinion and yet here you are refusing to believe them when they're put right in front of you.

I'd say your stats were more proof that restrictions and lockdown have had some degree of success. If we hadn't had restrictions and lockdown, I think the stats would have been much more unpleasant

The 2020 death rate figures are provisional.

Many deaths won't be registered until after post mortem and inquest results are officially recorded and 2020's figure won't be 'official' until late 2021.

Covid-19 has decimated NHS staff. There may be fewer (or no more than usual) patients in ICU, HDU and CCU beds, but staffing numbers are less.

Surely the stats are like this because of the hugely restrictive changes to all our lives? I am sceptical of lockdown and consider it harmful. But we are seeing a picture linked to our own behaviours here. Much of the UK barely came out of lockdown. There are no nightclub festivals packed offices. And haven't been since March!

@ConquestEmpireHungerPlague

Not at all, but that article doesn't anywhere say that available bed capacity is currently significantly higher than it was this time last year

''So you think the financial and other costs of these restrictions are justified and proportionate to the virus threat?''

I don't OP. I'm not minimising. I'm aware that a figure of less than 1% are dying from covid. But people have not gone to the gp with lumps and fallen behind on smears and prostate checks etc... Many businesses will never open again.

All for a pandemic that should just be a wake up call, for the next / fatal zoonotic virus that lurks............... still but will be able to spread around the world because everybody has lockdown fatigue and doesn't trust a govt who cried wolf.

Govts need to be able to admit, ok, we acted in a way that was approprate with the knowledge we had, but now, we need to relax and save our energies for a potentially far more serious zoonotic virus.

It's kind of terrifying.

We can't see the full impact of covid run ravage because we haven't allowed it to.

Honestly I'm very very concerned about lockdown impact on kids mental health economy and think a lot of restrictions need to be lifted urgently. But this reporting is bad science.

I wish to God, some trustworthy, honest person would come to the fore and tell us the truth ( or even an approximation of the truth?)

Oh good. I’m so pleased to know that lockdown has worked. That is good news isn’t it? Gives us all a reason to keep at it.

Agree OP. Mortality rate will be higher from the economic impact of lockdown and from untreated and late treatment of life threatening conditions. This hysteria is harming everyone, but unfortunately many people struggle to think for themselves.