Disgusting

[StoneofDestiny]

AIBU to think it's disgusting that the pay of Nurses, Prison Officers, police, Teachers and other public service workers who have kept us safe despite the risk to themselves throughout this Covid year are the ones that get their pay frozen

whilst everybody else stayed home, the majority being paid 80% of their wages to do so (don't forget that there weren't any holidays, days our l, meals out, after school activities to pay for)

What majority was being paid 80% of its wages?

"At the schemes peak in May, 30% of the workforce across the UK was furloughed."

Who has said otherwise? However the vast majority of the population aren't earning 80k in the public or private sector are they?

But in essence your argument about people getting paid more in the public sector boils down to lower paid roles. You don't need to go anywhere near the £80k level jobs to see that reversed. I don't earn anywhere near that and am definitely paid significantly less that a private sector equivalent role.

So we are really talking about public sector roles where people may be earning £20k rather than £18k in the private sector. Many of these roles are on the front line of delivering public services and dealing with members of the public and many may also be key workers as a result. Asking them to continue to receive effective pay cuts after a decade of the same to pay for guns and lasers is pretty galling. I expect that in another few years this public sector premium will have completely disappeared.

What is your view on retail workers?

According to the trade press for example, Tesco workers have recently received a 3.3% pay rise.

According to the trade press Tesco's workers received a 3.3% pay rise in October. It isn't stellar by any means but many key workers in the public sector can only dream of such a pay rise.

I work in education & got the 2.75% increase backdated to April as well. I

The prison service is on its knees. Underpaid and too few staff - it is a seething cauldron of drug taking and violence. A blind eye is turned to the drugs in order to make the prisons manageable at all. And now the staff are being told they are not worth a pay rise.

It’s basic economics

@Hopoindown31

But in essence your argument about people getting paid more in the public sector boils down to lower paid roles.

The average worker would earn more in the public sector.

In terms of higher earners it's often skewed because there is a small percentage of private sector earners who earn a lot eg bankers & lawyers on their millions.

You don't need to go anywhere near the £80k level jobs to see that reverse

Do you have evidence?

Certainly I know many accountants, HR professionals, project managers who earn the same moving into the public sector.

Public sector workers will still have their jobs in the next few years and beyond. Private sector is not so safe.

Not true. Since the Tories came into power there have been regular cuts and re structures, probably on a yearly basis. The first place they look to save money is by cutting staff and those of us who remain are all doing more work, for and with less of everything. We are under paid in most areas, our work loads are pressurised. Our targets are frightening, to the point that most of us feel anxiety at the thought of what is waiting for us when we get into work each shift. We don’t have job security any more than any other industry; I cannot remember the last time I felt secure that I would still have my job in twelve months time and I’m one of the more optimistic ones.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that anyone should even consider giving us pay rises right now. It would be insensitive and crass to do so for the vast majority of us. I’d also much rather have a freeze for however many years and still have employment. Also, I know that there are frightening amounts of people who are worse off than us. My point is, please don’t get annoyed with civil servants thinking that we’ve got it easy, because we haven’t got it any easier than many in the private sector. Many of us are trying to jump in that direction because we know what’s coming our way when it comes time to pay for all of this.

I work in education & got the 2.75% increase backdated to April as well.

I don't and like millions of others it has been 1% since I joined the public sector.

The average worker would earn more in the public sector.

And that’s before you take into consideration their defined benefits pension.

For example these high paying jobs are very much in line with the private sector once you take into account pay, pension, flexi etc

HR Chief Operating Officer - Manchester £93,000 - £110,000

Head of Compliance- High Wycombe £68,800 - £96,909

Programme Delivery - Manchester £70,000 - £117,800

Finance business partner lead - London - £65,439

@Hopoindown31 I was just pointing out we do exist. Pay scales have also increased so new teachers start on 32k now in inner London

@SentientAndCognisant
@dottiedaisee

Are you now saying that the economy indeedmatters more than lives?

Throughout the lockdown and subsequent restrictions many here on MN commented that this would cause serious economic damage and hardship . These posters were told lives matter more than the economy. The majority of the public and MN supported and continue to support the approach of the Government on lockdowns and restrictions.

Well guess what the pay freeze is just one of those economic impacts which incidentally is a much lesser impact than many in the private sector who will see no pay rises at all or entire industries such as theatres, travel, hospitality which have made mass redundancies. And the real shock is that this impact has only just started and will only get worse hence the saying "Enjoy Covid because the future is going to be hell "

So @SentientAndCognisant in answer to your point about being unable to afford a supermarket bill, an incantation is not required merely a reflection that this is a direct economic impact of the lockdown/ restrictions that the majority supported.

"Made your bed now lie in it" springs to mind.

The job insecurity thing is not just about cuts. They happen everywhere - private and public

What is very different in the public sector is that there can be a very high level of incompetence with no consequences (firing)

Make a mistake in the private sector and you are gone. Private sector leaders are instantly fired if they make costly mistakes for example. I don’t see any scrutiny of the NHS leadership at the moment. Lots of deflection onto the government though. I’m pretty sure a lot of NHS leaders would have been fired if they were under private sector scrutiny by now. That’s a form of job security that is just unheard of in the private sector.

Do you have evidence?

Yep, the latest ONS report clearly shows that for upper middle and upper skills jobs classifications, there is a private sector premium. You can look up the job codes associated with their classifications and clearly see that there are many jobs that do not command anywhere near £80k salaries in that bracket. My job is one of them. I work alongside private sector consultants who are in equivalent roles and earn considerably more than me.

Certainly I know many accountants, HR professionals, project managers who earn the same moving into the public sector.

"That's great! Who needs statistical evidence when we have your anecdotal experience 🙄"

Sound familiar?

Private sector leaders are instantly fired if they make costly mistakes for example.

How many examples would it take for you to accept that that is patently completely false?

It wasn't anecdotal evidence hence why I posted job adverts.

You can look up the job codes associated with their classifications and clearly see that there are many jobs that do not command anywhere near £80k salaries in that bracket.'

I couldn't see this broken down by salary, where is it the ons

I was listening to this on the news yesterday. One item they’re reporting how trade unions are up in arms because there will be no public sector pay increases and then the next item is that we are at a record level of debt/borrowing. Sorry, no public sector pay increases without a tax increase to pay for them. Also, it is not just about pay. Public sector employees have phenomenol pensions. They like to moan about them but they have no idea how valuable they are. I would give up half my salary for the security of a defined benefit pension and knowing the investment and longevity risk sits with the tax payer and not me.

Yep, the latest ONS report clearly shows that for upper middle and upper skills jobs classifications, there is a private sector premium.

But what is the premium? A lawyer in the CS will make a good wage but it's peanuts compared to a lawyer in a MC firm on 1m a yr. However most private sector lawyers don't work for these firms &/or become partners.

Public sector employees have phenomenol pensions. They like to moan about them but they have no idea how valuable they are. I would give up half my salary for the security of a defined benefit pension and knowing the investment and longevity risk sits with the tax payer and not me.

Totally agree.

Spot on about the pensions Winnie
It's easy to take it for granted

Im going into radiography and I know plenty of my colleagues did 100s of chest xrays on COVID patients which requires close contact with the ptients to move them etc. Why arent they getting a pay rise?

I couldn't see this broken down by salary, where is it the ons

You need to look up the job codes associated with the bands using the standard classification (link in the report). You can then find job titles and search for job listings or use published salary scales (I have access to a professional society salary scale for example). Good luck!

Well the NHS always needs staff...i would urge you to retrain so you can have a good pension. It is definately a perk.

Yes I moved because I wanted to up by pension contributions & security.