Disgusting

[StoneofDestiny]

AIBU to think it's disgusting that the pay of Nurses, Prison Officers, police, Teachers and other public service workers who have kept us safe despite the risk to themselves throughout this Covid year are the ones that get their pay frozen

I haven't got time for that @Hopoindown31 I assumed you could provide a summery. Never mind

It's a shame, but where will the money come from? We are facing a recession where people will lose jobs and businesses - many people already have! I can't see many people getting payrises, we will all be worse off with the inevitable tax hikes that will follow.

Fucking MPs should have a decade pay freeze .....where is the firework emoji?

What on earth do you expect? The economy is more than 10% poorer than last year, tax revenues are hugely reduced, the country has borrowed billions. This is what people said would happen but apparently the economy didn’t matter. The economic catastrophe has barely begun.

Have we reached the point of rebellion yet?

I haven't got time for that @Hopoindown31 I assumed you could provide a summery. Never mind

Not my job thanks as I suspect that you wouldn't believe any "summery" (sic) I provide.

You are an educator so I thought you could be able to find out for yourself...

It is not easy information to find because it is counter to the arguments government wants to make. The fact that the ONS only focusses on average workers is pretty poor for a workforce analysis tbh.

It's a shame, but where will the money come from?

The recently announced guns and lasers fund?

@Theluggage15 well if people adhered to the rules...it wouldn't be dragged out even more Those people continuing as normal because they disagree with the situation we are in are shooting their own selves with their own rifle...

@Hopoindown31

Private sector leaders are instantly fired if they make costly mistakes for example.

How many examples would it take for you to accept that that is patently completely false?

You work in the NHS and I am sure you know perfectly well there is a lot of incompetence, I am sure you are fantastic but I am sure you can point to some colleagues who are verging on useless. I’ve lots of friends in leadership in teaching who have pretty bad teachers on their books...they can’t get rid of them, that’s just how it is

They would be fired in the private sector. A lot of people go into work in the private sector every day worried about getting fired. That’s how it is. You don’t have the wiggle room that’s apparent in the public sector.

I've been reading about this from different sources and they all say different things regarding NHS workers - some say all but doctors and nurses, some say all NHS staff are exempt and some say it is just NHS managers that will have pay frozen. What does that mean for people in admin roles who worked through the pandemic? A lot of ex-nurses work in admin roles and we're redeployed to frontline roles in the pandemic. It would be awful they had their pay frozen. Is this to be applied the annual rise in April or does it apply to incremental progression too? Does anyone know what has been proposed exactly.

I would probably start looking at other options if it is both increments and annual reviews of pay that are frozen (not that there are many right now). If the amount the increments are worth are frozen then that would be fine with me, but if the incremental progression is gone (which we had in the last pay cap) too that would be really disappointing. I would seriously consider if it is worth working in the NHS if we are going to have to keep going through this every couple of years. I want to know that if I improve in my role I will get recognised and paid for it. We all work to pay the bills ultimately and given that so much money has been wasted on dodgy contracts that haven't delivered (can we have our money back please - it is our money after all!) it is just a total piss take to all of us, not just those in the public sector - self employed people and those who have already lost jobs have been mistreated too.

It is a bit shit that this has been thrown out there without any clarity to be honest.

It's a shame, but where will the money come from?

The recently announced guns and lasers fund?

HS2
All the millions paid for PPE that was not fit for purpose or didn't even materialise

You are an educator so I thought you could be able to find out for yourself...

I work in finance.

It is not easy information to find because it is counter to the arguments government wants to make. The fact that the ONS only focusses on average workers is pretty poor for a workforce analysis tbh.

Pretty much every statistic focuses on the average person.

Not my job thanks as I suspect that you wouldn't believe any "summery" (sic) I provide.

I have no problem in admitting I am wrong & learning more.
At the moment I still believe the average worker is better off in the public sector. Higher salaries involve more investigation because when comparing salaries the private ones are skewed by banks, the big 4 etc
in exactly the same way that private sector only salaries for the same role are very varied depending on who you work for.

On the dodgy contracts point, what I believe actually happened was the NHS procurement and logistics was so woefully incompetent (getting PPE and it sitting in the UK port for weeks on end, inability to source PPE given the worldwide demand) that central government had to take over and do what was necessary to source the PPE

There are different ways of looking at this, but one is that NHS procurement and logistics were totally incompetent and the government had to step in, but get blamed anyway. If you want to explore this theme, why, again, are NHS leaders immune from scrutiny?

@hamstersarse No doubt hands were in the trough & general government incompetence but NHS procurement seems crazy. I remember refusing to take the "free" paracetamol after my CS because it would cost them £7. Wtf I used to work in buying & it makes no sense to me.

It's the classic. Get everyone fighting about which public sector roles are 'worthy' of a pay increase, generate a race to the bottom about how overpaid any other public sector worker is compared to private, then rub ones own hands as they vote themselves another 10% salary increase because they, of course, deserve one. Plus expenses, of course.

Let's face it, the cost of the pandemic has cost the country an unbelievable amount of money. Furlough costs have been huge. Public sector workers are the ones who will suffer from this from years to come. I fully expect my school job to be gone or downgraded by this time next year. We already had redundancies a few years back due to school cuts. There has only been me left for the last 4 years, doing the job of 2 or 3 people. I am not a teacher so if it comes to it, I'm not "essential", am I?

Private sector workers will do ok eventually even if they've been made redundant just now as all the sectors affected will recover with the development of vaccines etc.

It's shit for everyone. In a way, I would rather have a pay freeze for the public sector for a few years if it means that jobs could be saved. If there are staff cuts to cover lack of funding due to paying back pandemic costs it will be even more shit for the ones who are left. Of course they deserve pay increases, everyone (well almost everyone, those with half a brain) acknowledges the fact they worked fucking hard through months of the first lockdown (including extra cover for colleagues having to isolate) when half the country was on furlough doing gardening, home improvements and going on bike rides.....

we ALL have to grin and bear it for a couple of years till the country gets back on its feet, whether we are public or private sector.

I agree that MPs shouldn't receive pay rises.

I’ve lots of friends in leadership in teaching who have pretty bad teachers on their books...they can’t get rid of them, that’s just how it is

There is a process to "get rid of" incompetent teachers. The issue is that schools can't recruit replacements in lots of posts. Sometimes a role is advertised and one person applies. If they can talk in full sentences at interview and have the degree in the subject they get the job because the kids have to have someone teaching them.

when half the country was on furlough doing gardening, home improvements and going on bike rides.....

Why do people keep posting this? Half the country wasn't on furlough, many of those that were faced financial losses & what about the self employed, many who received nothing.

There is never any nuance it seems to be option a) key worker risking their life working all hours under the sun or b) someone on furlough having the time of their life.

I’ve lots of friends in leadership in teaching who have pretty bad teachers on their books...they can’t get rid of them, that’s just how it is

You can get rid of any teacher - good or bad - in 6 weeks flat. One poor lesson observation and the process begins,

Re the comment about teachers basically being furloughed throughout lockdown - dh is a teacher at a private school. He spent every day teaching hos full timetable remotely, marking, lesson planning, all whilst juggling care of our 2 year old with me whilst I worked too. He worked just as hard during the first lockdown as he would have had he been at work. He is now working as normal at school, his workload never decreased, nor did that of his colleagues or friends at state schools. Its a lazy argument against teachers (as always!).

Op you're right to be annoyed, especially in light of the mp pay rise. Thank you also for highlighting the lesser-recognised public sector workers such as prison officers.

You were lucky to get a pay rise this year. A lot of people on low wages worked all through (and not from home). They are the ones who will really suffer. Already on rubbish money, often minimum wage with prices going sky high.
Care workers will suffer and they have been front line through this.
If you have a job you should be grateful not moaning because you won't get a pay rise. Some people don't even get a pay rise yearly anyway.

NHS procurement and logistics were totally incompetent and the government had to step in, but get blamed anyway. If you want to explore this theme, why, again, are NHS leaders immune from scrutiny

Because it's not their fault, they're working under all the red beuraucratic tape put in place BY THE GOVERNMENT.

you can get rid of a teacher in 6 weeks flat Yes by bullying.... And the only other way is if they are pig thick stupid and not in a union!

red beuraucratic tape put in place BY THE GOVERNMENT

Which got magically removed for the MPs chums to supply the contract...

TheKeatingFive and Laxxy the reason many public sector workers earn a good wage is that many of the roles which are not degree level have been contracted out to the private sector, leaving those roles for which qualifications are required and which pay more. Although that said, if you look at responsibilities and skills, the pay is less than it would be in an equivalent private sector job.

In terms of pensions - they're good, but they're not what they used to be. People talk about gold-plated pensions, but the vast majority of public sector pensions are nowhere near enough to live on. It's only when you're right at the top of the pile that they're great. We shouldn't be looking to tear down public sector pension provision, we should be looking at why private sector pensions in the UK are so awful and why that is permitted to continue.

What I see on this thread is the success of the Tory rhetoric of private good, public bad - it's divisive neoliberal bollocks.