Stop asking if I’m Mrs or Miss

[catspyjamas123]

I just hate it when companies ask if I’m Mrs or Miss - what business is it whether I’m married or not? I’ve politely put up with it for years but it makes me fume. They don’t ask men if they are married. Even worse, some companies assume I am a Mrs. I am NOT. I am very happily divorced and definitely a Ms. Are they being unreasonable? Vote yes if it’s a completely unnecessary intrusion into your home life. Vote no if it’s quite alright to all live in a 1950s nightmare!

I do remember a schoolfriend's mother telling me very vehemently that only lesbians used

Yes - that was what was thrown at you if you used that title when it first emerged - and indeed when ‘being lesbian’ was considered an insult. I didn’t take my husbands name on marriage and was called in to the boss’s office and asked ‘this won’t work, what will we call you!’ I said ‘call me Stone as always’. (I also got the vomit inducing ‘I was proud to take my husbands name’ from a few women at work,

Thank heavens things have moved on from all that.

@florascotia2 yes, I think that applies to society as a whole tbh - how can people be encouraged to find things out, rather than jumping straight into a brawl? I'm a bit pessimistic about the tendencies that our world today (social media etc) encourages. Wish I had an answer!

Just don't see why all correspondence can't just address you by your name nowadays!

Particularly if as well as the marital status issue people are now identifying as non binary or whatever - don't understand why companies don't miss out titles completely and save themselves the admin and potential hassle, grief and complaints, from getting a title wrong.

Dear Firstname Surname can never be interpreted as too informal or disrespectful in 2020, surely???

@HMSSophie

It makes me fume. Anyone who thinks it's a fuss about nothing pisses me off too. It's not ok to be defined by my relationship to a man, thanks, you can fuck off. It's an outdated indicator of the patriarchy

Yes, I am totally with you on this @HMSSophie!

I get around it with my professional title, but I shouldn't have to do this.

For those who don't mind it, most will be Mrs. The title sounds more respectable - a nice married lady, backed up by a respectable husband. Saying you are an older Miss assumes you to be a dried-up old spinster. Saying you are Ms implies you are divorced (like me), and have therefore failed at life, or that you are being unnecessarily pretentious

Men do not face any of this low-level, pervasive judgement.

I did once ask a poor salesman why it was he needed to know my marital status when completing my purchase details on a form, but he didn't need to know a man's marital status. It was like a lightbulb moment for him, he had never even considered the inequality in this. I'm glad I educated him, I was SO pissed off at having to disclose my marital status to by a frigging phone.

I use Ms. I used it when single and now that I'm married I still use it. I think, like men, women should only have one title (except Dr, Dame, Lady etc). It pisses me off when women are known in relation to the men they "belong" to.

In Irish it's even worse Miss is literally translated to "daughter of" and Mrs is literally translated to "woman of." It's even evident in Irish surnames. When I was single it was Ní xyz and now I'm married it's Uí xyz.

I am not only the daughter of my father and the woman of my husband. I am a person in my own right and deserve a title that reflects this. I'm going to keep using Ms and no longer use the Irish version of my surname.

So long story short, I agree with you OP.

Or no title would be fine too - very fair point.

We had a teacher at school who insisted we call her Ms, she really went to town on this, writing it on the white board and had us all chant her name ...... so we called her Miss. She would really lose her shit at this, which was slightly disturbing but genuinely funny. Every time I hear somebody insisting they are called Ms and making a fuss about I think of that stupid woman's face. Personally, you can call me whatever you like. It really doesn't matter.

Go with Rev

"Miss or Mrs?" is daft because there are so many more titles it could be. "What title?" would make more sense. Although I see there are pp annoyed that anyone would even ask that!

I tend to use Mrs if asked but when people use Ms I don't 'correct' them, both are accurate enough.

I felt as though people used to ask me needlessly when my dc were little (in shops when getting refunds for example -just put Ms fgs if you need a title at all!) possibly because they suspected I was a feckless, unmarried young mum and wanted to make the point. I was actually a pushing 30s professional, married for years so their shaming didn’t have the desired effect but the things I’ve been asked would have made me feel quite small if I cared about things like that! I hope it wouldn’t happen now tbh.

Stone Gosh that's horrific re your neighbour. Did you tell her - and your boss - that they were factually incorrect and the use of 'Ms' as an equivalent to 'Mr' had been advocated by intelligent women since the mid 19th cent.

Another interesting article:

daily.jstor.org/from-the-mixed-up-history-of-mrs-miss-and-ms/

@Plussizejumpsuit

Controversia, but in this day and age I feel a bit embarrassed for women who get married and take their husbands name and use Mrs. So yanbu at all.

I could not agree more!

I find it so depressing that these wonderful, accomplished, intelligent women are so joyfully jumping on these ridiculous, sexist and outdated "traditions" just so that strangers know they have a man all of their own.

@Pyewhacket

What a silly woman, what else would you expect from a class of 30 kids?? Besides, although I like to be Mrs and not Ms or Miss, I can't imagine caring enough to get that offended.

I used to ask men their title too. You never know if you are speaking to a Reverend or a Major or something. And in these nutty days, it saves someone being screamed at down the phone because you misgendered them.

I had one guy didn’t even ask me this. He said ‘are you married?’ He was an absolute creep.

YANBU.

We need to get with the times and be shot of these forms of everyday sexism.

I get very annoyed by it too. I’m Ms and have been since I was 18. My daughters have been Ms since they were born. I’d be happy with Mrs if it didn’t indicate marriage - like Mistress with its old-time meaning. I think it absolutely matters. It’s small but intrinsically significant.

I'd vote for getting rid of titles to, they seem so unnecessary in this day and age and so many companies, in my experience, ask the question and then use the wrong title anyway. When I corrected someone recently they asked if I didn't have more important things to worry about! Yes, yes I do. Do you not have more important things to do than tick boxes and then ignore the information?

What difference does it make anyway.
It`s not as though you get a discount either way.

@Ladyks

I’m happily a Mrs but my husband does not own me maybe you’re not as happily divorced as you thought? & Perhaps I’d get more worked up about this question if I ever end up divorced. Just use “Lady” if it bothers you so much.

@Ladyks you may not be aware but historically women took husbands name upon getting married because they were considered to be "owned" by their husband.

I hate it, it's intrusive and irrelevant.

Personally, I address everybody I don't know as Ms. because it's the most neutral.

I mean, how on earth are you supposed to know if Sarah Smith, head of Whatever, is Mrs o Miss? But also, what do I care?

Amazing there are some real old chestnuts coming out here. People saying Ms is for lesbians - as if lesbians are some species apart. And what is wrong with someone being a lesbian? Or that divorced women must be pitied. I’ve never felt more free than when my divorce came through.

Have you seen the thread about women using the “Dr” title?
Everything from showing off, to dick move, to confusing, to impersonating a medic.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4076810-To-sign-up-at-the-surgery-as-Dr

Apparently being defined by marital status rather than academic status is not comparable either.

I think the issue here is that there are a lot of different options for women and 1 for men (not including the kids master option). You could be Ms, Miss or Mrs......i agree its daft but it dates back so far that its probably difficult to change. If you fill out a form they have to know if its Miss, Mrs or Ms, where as if you are a guy its just plain Mr.

Perhaps one way is to get rid of Mrs & Miss and just have Ms!

I have to ask for work. But I ask for title not "are you Mrs" so you can have Mrs/Miss/Ms/Lady/Dr.. whatever, but it won't let you leave it blank!