Stop asking if I’m Mrs or Miss

[catspyjamas123]

I just hate it when companies ask if I’m Mrs or Miss - what business is it whether I’m married or not? I’ve politely put up with it for years but it makes me fume. They don’t ask men if they are married. Even worse, some companies assume I am a Mrs. I am NOT. I am very happily divorced and definitely a Ms. Are they being unreasonable? Vote yes if it’s a completely unnecessary intrusion into your home life. Vote no if it’s quite alright to all live in a 1950s nightmare!

Also it is quite hard to ask without saying Miss or Mrs? You could say "what is your title?" "how would you like to be addressed" but I think lots of people wouldn't understand the question. Maybe we should ask "Ms or Dr?" and then anyone that wants Miss or Mrs would need to volunteer it especially and we wouldn't offend people like the op.

[quote catspyjamas123]@FudgeDrudge yes go on, accuse me of a poor choice of husband. Would you say the same to a woman who was a victim of domestic abuse? Because I was the victim of financial and emotional abuse, eagerly facilitated by the family courts, all thanks to the marriage ceremony.[/quote]
Regardless of the wisdom of your choice of husband, he’s the culprit. The marriage ceremony has nothing to do with it.

@catspyjamas123, I agree with you. Why is it that the default title for men gives no indication of their marital status yet women, by default, are asked whether they are Miss (unmarried) or Mrs (married or divorced). The older I get the more irritated I am with it. Firstly because we're striving for equality yet this is an everyday example of how we are treated differently, yet there seems to be no good reason for it and it would be simple to resolve. And secondly because, at over 50 and single, I feel a bit embarrassed to give my title as Miss. Unfortunately I've grown up thinking that I'd be married with kids by a certain age, as that was the norm, yet I've "failed" by not having done so. Like I'm so awful that I've never managed to find a man who wanted to marry me, and the last thing I want to do is advertise this unless I have to. IMO utility companies etc just do not need to know whether I'm married, single, divorced, whatever unless they also want to know the marital status of their male clients. Why the difference?

Yes, in the scheme of things it's a minor gripe but I don't like it.

The point is though that they shouldn't need to ask at all. They don't ask men, if they want to be called something other than Mr they just say so (your name? they either say "John Smith" and get put down as Mr JS or "Dr John Smith" if that's their preferred title).

It should be the same for women, one default title (Mrs or Ms, I don't mind which) with the few that don't use it saying so.

What’s wrong with asking? It’s so they can get the title you prefer right.

What’s wrong with asking? It’s so they can get the title you prefer right

I prefer no title. Why do they insist?

It isn’t an option to decline giving a title.

Why are titles always compulsory fields on computers? There’s no need for them in this day and age.

I can't say for the other countries but in France mademoiselle is now only used to talk to schoolgirls. All adult females are now referred to as Madame.

It would be less irritating if they asked "is that Ms?" then you could say either just say yes or "no it's Mrs". It's the fact that they alway say "is that Miss or Mrs", the default assumption being that you will have chosen a title denoting your marital status.

I don't really mind, I'm Mrs and happy with that but I do think titles are unnecessary and it's ridiculous that they are a required field on all forms. I literally never call myself Mrs X and would be perfectly happy with any company writing "Dear First name Surname" to me.

I refuse to use a title. Why should women be referred to by their marital status when men aren’t? We need to be like a number of mainland European countries, where every adult woman is ‘Madame’, or every woman is ‘Frau’.

If pushed, I use my academic title because that’s my attainment. Or tell them I’m an Admiral or something.

@LyingDogsLie1

I totally agree. I don’t think it’s right that a woman reveals so much about herself by her title. When you consider that Mrs derived from Mr’s (as in his possession) it makes it even worse. Miss then Ms I think - like Master to Mr.

No it wasn't, it's a contraction of "Mistress".

@bluebluezoo

16 years ago when I had DD1 I wasn't married to DH yet and the nurses kept calling me "Mrs Fortune" and I said "Why are you calling me Mrs? It's Miss." and they said "It's respect" and I was FURIOUS as it was such a judgmental thing....like...unmarried Mothers have something to be ashamed of.

This is it, isn’t it. If you are co-habiting and/or have children, Mrs is the “respectable” title.

I am married, but I don’t have a ring and never have worn one. Many of my relatives are very worried that people might think I’m an unmarried mother.

And once I was in a cafe with tiny DD, a group of ladies with toddlers having lunch at the table over. I couple at the table in front of me made a loud comment about how lovely it was to see them all with wedding rings:

We may think we’ve moved on, but bottom line is marriage, Mrs and a wedding ring is something women are still judged on.

Mrs confers respectability. Which is why so many are proud to use the title. It raises social status, and people with think better of them. No Mrs, and you will be judged and deemed lesser.

Yes, as much as it pains me to say it, I think we sometimes forget how conservative and traditional we are as a nation.

Yet men are allowed to father any number of bastards and their social status is unchanged. Just look at our PM. And they don’t have a title that indicates their marital status.

Our PM's social status remains as total selfish idiot.

I'm still not sure why this is a thing to make a fuss of. I think it's a shame if standards slip and I start being addressed as "Liz Crumble" instead of Mrs Crumble.

We are moving so far from tradition and formality in our language and standards and I find it quite sad.

I'm sure the OP would be quite upset to discover that most of our letters/ cards come addressed to Me and Mrs H "Crumble"

As

I think titles are ridiculous full stop. But this is also why I use Dr (I am one - not a medical one tho) cos a) it’s a great rejoinder to ‘is that Miss or Mrs?’ and b) it cheeses me off that women’s titles define their marital status whereas men’s don’t.

I used to live in the US and no one in customer service asks for titles there and they’re not on your bank card either. Just first name last name.

@Crumbleandcake

I'm still not sure why this is a thing to make a fuss of. I think it's a shame if standards slip and I start being addressed as "Liz Crumble" instead of Mrs Crumble.

We are moving so far from tradition and formality in our language and standards and I find it quite sad.

I'm sure the OP would be quite upset to discover that most of our letters/ cards come addressed to Me and Mrs H "Crumble"

As

We can still be formal if all adult women use Mrs as a title. Differentiated titles indicate that standards need to be improved, not that they have slipped.

I'm still not sure why this is a thing to make a fuss of. I think it's a shame if standards slip and I start being addressed as "Liz Crumble" instead of Mrs Crumble.

You are trolling right?

I have been Jane Smith my whole life, I am only ever referred to as Ms on online forms. I would literally never have been taken seriously at work, on Linked In etc if I'd insisted on being known as Miss Jane Smith or, worse, Mrs Jane Smith. Do you know how much rampant everyday sexism and unconscious bias there still is in the workplace? Especially if you work in a male -dominated industry like I do. And the rampant ageism once you're over 40?

If I'd have insisted on Miss in my early days I would never have been taken seriously and, if I'd managed to get interviewed and get a job, every pervert for miles would have been instantly sniffing around to check out the new "Miss". It was hard enough to not be treated like a sex object and fend off people trying to shag the new girl as it was.

If I'd have insisted on Ms there would have been (even) more of the "oh don't bother with her, she must be a lesbian" stuff. And the "where are your dungarees" ridiculous comments I remember hearing in the noughties.

And now in my 40s, If I insisted on being known as Mrs everywhere I would seriously never get an interview and would have been consigned to the "past it" scrap heap even more so than I am now.

Different if you work in a school or hospital etc or don't work I guess.

Do we get the impression Mrs H Crumble does not have to trouble herself with the workplace?

I second everything @pinpinbin has said. I don’t think anyone at my work is know as Mr, Ms, Miss or Mrs. We are all first name surname. Mostly first name.

The gender pay gap is a real thing and using Mrs would only give the impression I didn’t have to trouble my pretty little head too much as Mr Catspyjamas would be looking after me - which is how bosses still see it.

@catspyjamas123

Do we get the impression Mrs H Crumble does not have to trouble herself with the workplace?

I second everything @pinpinbin has said. I don’t think anyone at my work is know as Mr, Ms, Miss or Mrs. We are all first name surname. Mostly first name.

The gender pay gap is a real thing and using Mrs would only give the impression I didn’t have to trouble my pretty little head too much as Mr Catspyjamas would be looking after me - which is how bosses still see it.

Oh, the irony. You’re making the exact assumption about Mrs Crumble that you complain about. The double standards on this thread are breathtaking.

@CityDweller

I think titles are ridiculous full stop. But this is also why I use Dr (I am one - not a medical one tho)

Did you see the thread about using your Dr title if you have a PhD?

Big no no apparently. You’ll confuse people who don’t understand what a PhD is, only medics have the right to use dr, it’s showing off, a dick move, pretending to be medical dr and you’ll be embarrassed on planes when you’re asked to help in an emergency, etc, etc.

Mrs is much better. Women shouldn’t be doing all that leaning and getting dr titles, unless it’s the caring, looking after people variety. Now Mrs, that’s a nice respectable title, shows you are accomplished in the womanly pursuits of marriage and child rearing. Which is much more impressive than having a brain. Women don’t need those, it’ll scare future husbands off...

@bluebluezoo I might start studying for a PhD on the back of that! Yes, there are some extremely dates attitudes.

Why would you have to buy land to get a 'Lady xxx' title? Or gain a doctorate to call yourself 'Dr xxx'? If a man can wear a dress and call himself a woman, then surely we can all call ourselves whatever we want, whether it's true or not?

Did you see the thread about using your Dr title if you have a PhD?

Big no no apparently.

If a professional/academic title offends, tough tit. PhDs are not given away like sweets. They're hard work and they're tough. Personally I find a title someone has earned makes far more sense than something like 'HRH' ('Higher' than what)?

The 'doctor in an emergency' protestation always makes me laugh. Cabin crew usher hundreds of passengers on and off flights every day: they are not going to remember the names much less titles of the people they encounter. And how will fellow-passengers on a flight know the title of the person sitting next to them? PhD holders don't walk around with stethoscopes round our necks. It does help at check-in, though, because what they say about upgrades can sometimes prove true. (And yes, it does say 'Doctor' on my passport).

But I digress. I thought it didn't matter in the least how women style ourselves and that it isn't something to get het up about .. (whistles, innocently).

Or gain a doctorate to call yourself 'Dr xxx'? If a man can wear a dress and call himself a woman, then surely we can all call ourselves whatever we want, whether it's true or not?

Probably. I might try Prof, then (even though I haven't achieved that distinction as yet). Hedge your bets as to how many people will assume I'm some crusty old bloke ...