Stop asking if I’m Mrs or Miss

[catspyjamas123]

I just hate it when companies ask if I’m Mrs or Miss - what business is it whether I’m married or not? I’ve politely put up with it for years but it makes me fume. They don’t ask men if they are married. Even worse, some companies assume I am a Mrs. I am NOT. I am very happily divorced and definitely a Ms. Are they being unreasonable? Vote yes if it’s a completely unnecessary intrusion into your home life. Vote no if it’s quite alright to all live in a 1950s nightmare!

RubbishRobotFromTheDawnOfTime

"I can't understand the mindset of someone who is proud of being married."

I agree with this. There's something quite unattractive about the idea of people wanting to broadcast this. What superior qualities does it endow you with? Does it make you more intelligent, more successful, kinder, friendlier, a better organiser, a better party guest? No.

All it really does is show that you have signed up to a legal contract that binds you to sharing your assets with someone and not having sex with anyone else.

Its nothing to be ashamed of by any means. But being "proud" of it? Meh. Its a bit like choosing to wear a ring saying: "I've got a life insurance policy".

And it suggests you think you are better than unmarried people, which I find very unattractive.

@RubbishRobotFromTheDawnOfTime

I can't understand the mindset of someone who is proud of being married. Do they feel sorry for their husbands who are unable to broadcast their privileged social status to the world via their title? Or is it just women who gain privilege by marrying?

I suppose that might be true if you see marriage as a 'privileged social status' Do you? I don't.

Did you gain privilege by marrying? I didn't. If neither of those apply then you are left with choice.

At work, I use the title Dr because it is relevant to my status in my chosen profession. At home I use the title Mrs X because it denotes my status in the family unit and I prefer the name to my birth name, sometimes, quite often, I simply use my full married name with no title at all. However, I prefer the overall sound of the name prefixed by a title. My choices.

I detest being referred to as Ms. That is not my title and I find it insulting

venicelover no, I obviously don't think it's a privileged status but if someone is proud of it and want to show it off, they do think that.

Which perpetuates the idea that for women, being married is something we should aim for so we can reach that higher social status. Marriage has historically been that. It shouldn't be now.

@user1471505494

I detest being referred to as Ms. That is not my title and I find it insulting

Why was it insulting? What do you mean when you say it's not your title? You haven't got a specific title. Nobody has. Just because you are usually asked to choose one it doesn't mean they have to ask.

Well traditionally the title Mrs was meant to show you were “respectable” because you were married and could have sex without being shamed. Hopefully we are past that now - or maybe not because maybe that is why the married women feel “proud”? When my kids were in infant school all mothers were referred to as Mrs to avoid anyone being shamed for being unwed. Just another sort of snobbery these days but the historical roots of how the “illegitimate” were treated are not pleasant.

At work, I use the title Dr because it is relevant to my status in my chosen profession. At home I use the title Mrs X because it denotes my status in the family unit and I prefer the name to my birth name, sometimes, quite often, I simply use my full married name with no title at all. However, I prefer the overall sound of the name prefixed by a title. My choices.

Your choice has an impact on other people's choices though . The fact that women insist on having a title that denotes whether or not they are married means that everyone else has to . The rest of us can't just say that we don't want to give a title when so many people seem to love them.

And it suggests you think you are better than unmarried people, which I find very unattractive.

no, that's just you I am afraid.

You have decided to read a lot of things in people's choice, that actually only affect THEM. Your views only affect you!

And it's absolutely a bonus for the entire society that we have a CHOICE. I disagree by the vision some are trying to paint, of all of us poor little things crushed by a patriarchal society. Insisting on portraying us women as victims and inferior beings is a hell of lot more damaging that someone deciding to stick with Mrs and refusing Ms.

The fact that women insist on having a title that denotes whether or not they are married means that everyone else has to

except that it doesn't.

And it's absolutely a bonus for the entire society that we have a CHOICE

If it were a genuine bonus for society, why don’t men have that choice?

PeggyPorschen

"And it's absolutely a bonus for the entire society that we have a CHOICE"

Well, yeah up to a point. See my earlier post.

This CHOICE is all good and well (and God knows I wouldn't take away the choice). But the marital status is a throwback to the days where there essentially wasn't a choice - that's why it matters.

So I'm kind of ambivalent about celebrating our right to choose to adhere to a set of marital status codes which harks back to a time when there was no choice.

If having a choice of titles to indicate marital status was really a positive thing then men would want it too.

this, this, so much this

Absolutely agree with you OP. It's so outdated.

Had an in person interview (not job-related) where the man going over my application was asking me to confirm my details. On asking my name he repeated 'Miss? MISS?' And responded to my blank stare with 'you're SURE your not a Mrs?'

I...did he think that was meant to be charming?

@PeggyPorschen

The fact that women insist on having a title that denotes whether or not they are married means that everyone else has to

except that it doesn't.

It does because even if you use Ms people assume that you are single or divorced. Assumptions will be made as long as there are plenty of women who choose to use the title based on whether or not they are married.

I really don't see Ms like that and have never had anyone assuming either that I am aware of. No one I know seems to assume that either at work etc. I think as others have said, its a generational thing.

I expect all women irrespective of age to default to Ms if they are forced to use a title and I only really notice anything different from the odd newly married woman that specifically wants to be Mrs and puts it in their prfiles and bios etc. I literally can't remember the last time I heard Miss outside of a school, but that is probably age-related :)

Ah, now, I know a bit about this! I did a bit of digging a while back, since I too was outraged that a woman’s title was dependent on her marital status, and I found out some interesting and surprising stuff.

Apparently, once, the words Master and Mistress were used to address people of status but without a formal title (eg, Lord, Countess, etc.) and used to differentiate such noble, untitled people from the servants. They were also titles applied to people of skill in a particular area, eg a craftsman or a teacher. In order to shorten the written words, Master became Mr and Mistress became Mrs or occasionally Miss. The two titles were used interchangeably and it did not denote marital status. Women of status or skill who were not married still referred to themselves as Mrs, Mrs Jones the housekeeper. Younger women of the gentility but without their own titles started referring to themselves as Miss in order to ensure their status was known but to differentiate themselves from the housekeeper, the cook etc. Around this time, married older women in a household began referring to themselves as Mrs (husband’s first name) Bloggs, in order to confer status as senior untitled woman in a household. Jane Austen and other writers of the same era took this up with a frenzy and it became a modern thing.

So all stems from a class issue, rather than a sex issue, but somehow time and society have turned it into a marital issue.

I’m happy to be Mrs BiTB (and use my maiden name) and have been since my very early 20s. It causes some confusion that I use Mrs and my maiden name, but I can call myself what I want really. It does irritate me that such emphasis is placed on a woman’s marital status that isn’t placed on men, but I don’t think that going down the path of trying to create a whole bunch of new titles that don’t reveal your marital status really helps - it still categorises women probably in a way we don’t want to be categorised. No idea how we solve this, but basically I try to avoid using a title at all, except when I am at work and use my rank (which is the same for men and women in my role.)

@Belladonna12

At work, I use the title Dr because it is relevant to my status in my chosen profession. At home I use the title Mrs X because it denotes my status in the family unit and I prefer the name to my birth name, sometimes, quite often, I simply use my full married name with no title at all. However, I prefer the overall sound of the name prefixed by a title. My choices.

Your choice has an impact on other people's choices though . The fact that women insist on having a title that denotes whether or not they are married means that everyone else has to . The rest of us can't just say that we don't want to give a title when so many people seem to love them.

No, it really doesn't. If it is that important to you contact all the people who have you on their database and ask them to remove the title from all correspondence. If you are spoken to over the phone make a point of telling them the same thing. If you do it often enough and/or vote with your feet with organisations who refuse to do it, you will prevail.

All choices impact others, you will never eradicate that. Therefore, is the answer to remove choice altogether or to ensure the individual choice is respected?

The fact that women insist on having a title that denotes whether or not they are married means that everyone else has to

Of course it doesn’t. Which is why so many of us choose Ms.

In the many years before I got married, I used Miss and Ms interchangeably, depending what I felt like on the day. When I got married I didn’t change my surname so now I always use Ms. (To carry on using Miss would feel a bit odd, and Mrs MaidenName wouldn’t make sense either).

I quite like saying Ms if people are being nosey to be honest!

Doesn't bother me but then I'm not one of the terminally offended. I'm married, I'm not ashamed of that fact, actually I'm very happy about it! Mrs is fine with me.

The fact that women insist on having a title that denotes whether or not they are married means that everyone else has to

Clearly, this is bullshit. Huge numbers of women use titles that do not denote their marital status.

@user1471505494

I detest being referred to as Ms. That is not my title and I find it insulting

Insulting? I really do suggest getting over yourself sharpish

OR she can change her name, if she wants to!

Sure she can. My point is that if the aim is for her children to share her name, other options are available.

If taking a spouse's name is such a neutral thing to do, why would almost no man - even a right-on, 'feminist' man - even consider it?

Question for those of you referring to "ownership".... Did you have your dad walk you down the aisle? I'm planning on getting married in the not-too-distant and no way that is happening! I am blessed that my dad is still around and going strong, but he is aware that he doesn't own me

My OH is changing his name (well, adding to it), as am I. So our daughter, himself and myself will all share the same db surname.