Stop asking if I’m Mrs or Miss

[catspyjamas123]

I just hate it when companies ask if I’m Mrs or Miss - what business is it whether I’m married or not? I’ve politely put up with it for years but it makes me fume. They don’t ask men if they are married. Even worse, some companies assume I am a Mrs. I am NOT. I am very happily divorced and definitely a Ms. Are they being unreasonable? Vote yes if it’s a completely unnecessary intrusion into your home life. Vote no if it’s quite alright to all live in a 1950s nightmare!

It's funny how the most vocal against the "patriarchy" tend to be the most narrow minded and the most against personal choices.

Because I think everyone should be the same. One person’s “personal choice” to call themselves Mrs or Miss affects the whole of our society, damages it, I would say, and negativity impacts other people (women) in society as a whole.

* I really hope that when they get around to finally replacing marriage with cvil partnership legal status (even if they still call it marriage)

Marriage is literally a civil partnership that's just called marriage.*

You would think so right?

But there are still a few legal differences I am afraid:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/marriage-and-civil-partnership-in-england-and-wales

Depends whether you are happy to only have your Dad's name on the marriage certificate and not the person who actually birthed you, be named as an adulterer by a divorcing spouse, have the marriage annulled because you didn't want to have sex, had an STI or were pregnant at the time of the marriage, or against your will because you partner chose to start calling themselves the opposite sex I guess.

I genuinely couldn't care less about being asked which title I go by. I have bigger things to worry about.

I'm divorced, but I use Miss. The reason being I don't like Ms.

It's funny how the most vocal against the "patriarchy" tend to be the most narrow minded and the most against personal choices

It isn’t a personal choice though. I don’t want to use a title, why am I not allowed to make that choice?

It’s the equivalent of offering a toddler peas or sweetcorn. It allows them to think they have a choice by allowing them limited options, but it isn’t really a free choice at all.

Bin titles completely. Then those who want one can choose to use it.

I find it unfair that women were required to display marital status in titles but men are not. Ms is working quite well as a sort of maritally-non-binary alternative, because a fair few of us have adopted it for different reasons.

Hats off to the married women using Ms, by the way. Without you, we wouldn't be making progress on equality of access to a title that doesn't indicate marital status.

But in the interests of true equality, we really ought to be giving men a range of titles too. There are many benefits: if Mr were reserved for married men we'd have rather fewer instances of not realising that charming new potential love interest is actually a cheating married bastard until it's too late, for example.

[quote catspyjamas123]@Venicelover I don’t tell them. If I meet them in person they may notice I don’t wear a wedding ring. Or if it’s on the phone they work it out from other questions - “are you buying this with anyone else”. I’m middle aged and have kids. I could have never married for all they know. It’s simply that I actually seem to get more respect now. So much for Mrs being a title of status![/quote]
I can't see how this can be true. I think it is just your perception of it.

I bought a car on my own in mid-December last year, I was wearing gloves so no chance to see the rings. I was not patronised or asked if I had my husbands agreement. I am also older with kids and have never had a tradesman refer or defer to my husband if I have made the first contact with them.

It's not up to you to stop others from having the same choice. That would be the opposite of every feminist value.

I'm not campaigning or petitioning in any way to stop people calling themselves their name, Miss their name, Mrs their name or Ms their name. It's entirely their choice. I just find it laughably anachronistic to actively want to identify yourself as married to someone. or not.

I do also agree however that their is potentially a more sinister undertone now, in the case of abusive relationships and coercive control, and I do agree that it is part of the overall issue of sexual inequality.

Hats off to the married women using Ms, by the way. Without you, we wouldn't be making progress on equality of access to a title that doesn't indicate marital status

yes indeed!

I agree, why do they have to ask? We should in this day and age just have Ms, same as men just have Mr! Ridiculous. Just put Ms on your forms, companies!

@Belladonna12

It may undermine the equality of the sexes in your opinion, but there are other opinions (some of them stated on this thread) which are just as valid. Mrs is a contraction of Mistress, which has been defined earlier up the thread as

Just because you have an opinion, it doesn't mean it is valid.

How very patriarchal!

Judging by the vast majority of responses Mrs are a dying bred. Thankfully.

Because I think everyone should be the same

But everyone isn’t the fucking same and no amount of you thinking they should be will make it so. This attitude is far more dictatorial than anything the dreaded patriarchy produces. We spent decades stopping men from telling us what to do, only for it to be replaced by intolerant, narrow minded women trying to do the same thing.

It's such an outdated notion...I agree. Why on earth should we be defined as Miss/Ms/Mrs.

The feminist value of freedom of choice goes hand in hand with understanding the wider implications of that choice.
Personally, I am married, I don't wear a wedding ring and I sometimes use my married name but I mostly use my 'maiden' name. Even that descriptor is loaded!
If you choose to alter your title to display your marital status, that's up to you. But if you consider yourself a feminist, you will perhaps do so with the cognisance of how that reflects your engagement with a patriarchal structure.
I do occasionally use Mrs Beamur as it's easier and my DD has that name too. But it genuinely chafes me to be defined in that way.
DH has been single, married twice and divorced. He's been Mr Beamur throughout. He never gets asked if he's married.
I go by my name at work and don't use a title at all, yet I do occasionally get asked (mostly by older people) if that's Miss or Mrs. I don't get upset or annoyed by them asking, as it's reflective of a generational change for some people. I don't doubt that those changes will continue.
I'm still unsure if I like 'Mx' as an alternative, but I'm too old for Miss and too grumpy for Mrs.

If having a choice of titles to indicate marital status was really a positive thing then men would want it too.

Wanting there to be a default title for adult women isn't removing anyone's choice, I don't think it should be made law, just that it should be assumed to be Ms unless advised otherwise, same as men are assumed to be Mr unless they state otherwise.

Whereas I feel that so many women still using titles which denote marital status removes the choice of any woman to not be judged on their title.

@NowImmeagain

I agree, why do they have to ask? We should in this day and age just have Ms, same as men just have Mr! Ridiculous. Just put Ms on your forms, companies!

"There are many benefits: if Mr were reserved for married men we'd have rather fewer instances of not realising that charming new potential love interest is actually a cheating married bastard until it's too late, for example."

You're unlikely to be calling anyone by their title now if they are roughly a similar age to you and you meet them in a social situation.
I remember a (light hearted!) conversation with some single male friends who wanted to have a way of showing they were single. They came up with a combination of Mr and Single - Mingle!

I don’t particularly want Ms for everyone if they like it or not.

I just want an option to choose no title. I’m fine with using my full name.

"Wanting there to be a default title for adult women isn't removing anyone's choice, I don't think it should be made law, just that it should be assumed to be Ms unless advised otherwise, same as men are assumed to be Mr unless they state otherwise."

This is becoming the norm at work now isn't it. Unless I know them and know they have a different preference, women at work are routinely called Ms.

I have chosen to be called Ms, but I do find it surprising and disappointing that posters are being ridiculed for choosing to be called Mrs or Miss.

For me, feminism is having the right to choose.

Similarly, I didn’t change my surname when I got married. I don’t judge people that chose to change their name - but it is important that women feel able to make the choice freely.

To add, these companies don't need to know if I'm married or divorced, single, widowed .. it's none of their business. And why are people proud of being married??! Are you then ashamed for people who are divorced?? I'm going to start telling people who ask that I don't have a title and if their stupid form insists they can put what they like.

I don't want to use a title at all. It serves no purpose for me other than potentially telling everyone whether I'm married or not, which is none of their business and not relevant to every online form I fill in.

There should be an option for adding a title such as Dr, Rev. etc if you want to use it but the default should be none.

Beamur

I think this is probably the best and most insightful post on this thread for my money.

FWIW I'm not particularly bothered about what people choose to call themselves and I don't care what they call me (still technically married but divorcing and in a committed but non-cohabiting relationship with someone else). I can't get upset about it and if someone calls me Mrs I tend to let it go. I certainly wouldn't pull someone up for asking me my marital status over the hone.

But there's no way that if I did get married again I'd call myself Mrs.

It bothers me when people say "feminism is about choice" as a kind of lazy get-out-of-jail-free card, basically allowing them to revert to very un-feminist behaviour without further debate or scrutiny.

Well, yes and no: it is about choice but the "choices" don't happen in a vacuum and they reflect those arbitrary non-choices that patriarchy has provided us through history. So to simply default to the least feminist option of those choices without questioning it is bound to make some people question you.

So by all means call yourself Mrs if you want to. But be honest enough to admit this reflects a historical division into those who were "owned" by a man and those who no man had sought to own (or those in those days very rare few who chose not to be owned by a man).

Obviously its not like that any more, men don't legally "own" their wives and most marriages are much more equitable these days.

But waving it away and saying these symbolic categorisations don't matter at all is sort of avoiding the issue.

I can't understand the mindset of someone who is proud of being married. Do they feel sorry for their husbands who are unable to broadcast their privileged social status to the world via their title? Or is it just women who gain privilege by marrying?

I agree, thepeopleversuswork.