Stop asking if I’m Mrs or Miss

[catspyjamas123]

I just hate it when companies ask if I’m Mrs or Miss - what business is it whether I’m married or not? I’ve politely put up with it for years but it makes me fume. They don’t ask men if they are married. Even worse, some companies assume I am a Mrs. I am NOT. I am very happily divorced and definitely a Ms. Are they being unreasonable? Vote yes if it’s a completely unnecessary intrusion into your home life. Vote no if it’s quite alright to all live in a 1950s nightmare!

@Searchesforhipbones thank you!

One of my best friends is a post-marriage name changer and it's partly due to an ugly surname. When I asked her why she'd never changed it before, despite hating her name (it was a synonym for nasty), she gave the following reasons:
A) Not wanting to upset parents plus wasn't sure what to change it to.
B) Believes in name changing for marriage anyway so didn't want to "pay twice".
C) It's like putting concealer on a huge spot you can still sort of see- everyone would know why she'd changed it and what from (she had a double initial so v memorable) so the ugly name wouldn't "go away" as such, until marriage smoothed the transition and shut up the teasers.

@Belladonna12 quite conservative (in some ways) and sometimes stuffy ones, I suppose. Rarely see a "Ms" on place cards, although I just think "Jane Smith" should suffice anyway.

Several comments to the tune of 'why do you care?', or 'it doesn't matter to me, therefore it shouldn't matter to other people.

500 comments and counting. It does matter. Casual sexism matters. Masculine privilege at the expense of women also matters.

The good news coming out of this thread is that it's dying out. People these days don't routinely address each other by Title + FamilyName. Letters are rarely sent, even by law firms who generally live 20 years behind the times of the rest of us. Given names are practically the default. If I have to address a stranger in a formal email, I write 'Dear Jane Smith'. The only place where having to announce a title is the norm is on computer sites when purchasing goods or services, or on medical forms.

Within a couple of generations I suspect this daft tradition will be in the dumpster. And not before time, too. Thanks, OP: good discussion on this topic as ever.

@MunaZaldrizoti

Unfortunately, OP, there will always be some women who see becoming a Mrs as an achievement. For them, advertising that they are Mrs Thomas Lyle is more important to them than seeing how poisonous it is for women to be seen as Miss (owned by father) or Mrs (owned by husband).

yes, that's why women chose to change their name, that's the only reason

Feeling better after your goady little post?

I must tell my German parents that things have moved along since I came to live in the UK Brefugee. Then they might stop addressing envelopes as Fraulein 👍
I didn't mind being addressed as Fraulein, I've had much worse since moving here.

So many people - strong, educated, professional women - I know are absolutely delighted to do this and get right on it at the wedding reception. It's definitely still very normal and indeed the most likely practice

I know someone with a first in maths from Oxford and a highflying career who recently got married and has become Mrs Husband’s Name. Her rationale is that she wants to have the same name as her children.

My bloke’s ex, also established in a successful career, continued to be Mrs Exhusband’s name for the same reason. Ironically I’m the current wife and, 20 years later, am still Ms Vinyldetective. We were never going to have children.

My title is Dr. Otherwise it is Ms. I will NOT be defined according to my relationship with a man. I was 'Ms' at 12 as soon as I realised what 'Miss' meant.

On the not changing name in the UK, it’s not that simple.

I didn’t change my name when I got married (never occurred to me that I should) and ended up with no end of problems when my letters from the home office to confirm my residence status were addressed to mrs dh - which did not match the name on my passport.

So many people - strong, educated, professional women - I know are absolutely delighted to do this and get right on it at the wedding reception. It's definitely still very normal and indeed the most likely practice

And it doesn't make them any less strong, educated or professional if they do so. It's their choice, which they make freely.

I know someone with a first in maths from Oxford and a highflying career who recently got married and has become Mrs Husband’s Name. Her rationale is that she wants to have the same name as her children.

Which could also be achieved by giving the children both parents' names - seems to work perfectly well throughout the Spanish speaking world - or by her husband and children adoping her name. If it's good for the goose...

@IcedPurple

I know someone with a first in maths from Oxford and a highflying career who recently got married and has become Mrs Husband’s Name. Her rationale is that she wants to have the same name as her children.

Which could also be achieved by giving the children both parents' names - seems to work perfectly well throughout the Spanish speaking world - or by her husband and children adoping her name. If it's good for the goose...

Actually, double barrelled or hyphenated names are a nightmare. Forms cankt be filled, get messed up, no end of problems.

Dh and I meshed our names when we had dc to avoid subjecting them to it.

Which could also be achieved by giving the children both parents' names - seems to work perfectly well throughout the Spanish speaking world - or by her husband and children adoping her name. If it's good for the goose

OR she can change her name, if she wants to!

Telling women they shouldn't change their names is as bad as telling them that they should. It isn't your business what anyone else does, you do you.

@IcedPurple

I know someone with a first in maths from Oxford and a highflying career who recently got married and has become Mrs Husband’s Name. Her rationale is that she wants to have the same name as her children.

Which could also be achieved by giving the children both parents' names - seems to work perfectly well throughout the Spanish speaking world - or by her husband and children adoping her name. If it's good for the goose...

But they didn’t want to. Why is the current wave of feminism so prescriptive? It seems hellbent on dictating to women and trying to remove their choice.

I’m not telling people whether to change their names. I’m just saying that when dealing with a company I don’t want to have to give a specific title according to marital status. I have reached the age where each time they say “Mrs?” and I always correct them. Why must it even be asked?

Not everyone is talking to you OP. They are responding to other peoples posts. You can tell because they are quoting them and/or clearly responding to their posts

Why must it even be asked?

Because different women have different preferences 🙇🏼‍♀️

Whether to change name or not is a different issue to Ms/Mrs/Miss. It confuses things to conflate them. You could change your name so you still have the same name as your family but still be Ms.

Whether to change name or not is a different issue to Ms/Mrs/Miss. It confuses things to conflate them

It's not a different issue. Most women who change their name also use Mrs. Or don't care whether they get Mrs or Ms. It's a connected issue, obviously.

This is the kind of thing I might have given a shot about 20 years ago, but now I realise its not worth brain power. It is what it is, its slowly changing, it will eventually be different, and whining about it on the internet makes no difference to any of it. And most people do not care in the slightest

Why must it even be asked?

because unless you get it tattooed on your face, it's not obvious?
Others like to have the choice, which we have. So they ask what your choice is.

I want to keep having this choice. I refuse to be a Ms.

I cant believe there are 30y olds out there who actively want to be called Mrs or Miss in 2020 - astounding.

I'm with you catspyjamas123. In the professional work world men are Joe Bloggs and women are Jane Bloggs, I've not seen anyone use a title in about 20 years. Possibly Dr if they've done a PHD but even that is rare. I only ever sign my name Jane Bloggs and if forced to choose a title on an online form I use Ms. I have never thought that Ms means divorced and nobody has ever assumed so. I have never been married or divorced, live with my partner and have kids with him. I am always Jane Bloggs or Ms Jane Bloggs and he is Fred Smith or Mr Fred Smith. I rarely get cheques these days but I have always paid them into my bank account with my card, that has Ms Jane Bloggs on it, with no issue whether the name on the cheque was Jane Bloggs, Ms Jane Bloggs, Miss Jane Bloggs, J S Bloggs, Ms J Bloggs, J Bloggs or whatever variation. In fact the cheques I pay in most are from my ILs who send the kids cheques, even though they don't have bank accounts, and I pay them into my account even though they say Master D Smith on them! (joint account with Fred Smith).

So much unnecessary angst. I really hope that when they get around to finally replacing marriage with cvil partnership legal status (even if they still call it marriage) all this out of date, patriarchal bullshit goes away.

I cant believe there are 30y olds out there who actively want to be called Mrs or Miss in 2020 - astounding.

evidently there are, and even younger. Why wouldn't there be?

I know many professional women not bothered with titles at work, but who still prefer using them privately. Thankfully not many of us are anywhere near ready to put an end to traditional marriages and the use of Mrs.

The beauty of our country is that you have the choice. It's not up to you to stop others from having the same choice. That would be the opposite of every feminist value.

For those of you who are keen on Mrs, what would you think if all adult women were, by default, Mrs? Would you want another title to indicate marriage? Personally, I’d be happy if all women were Mrs, if Ms is too much for many to tolerate.

I really hope that when they get around to finally replacing marriage with cvil partnership legal status (even if they still call it marriage)

Marriage is literally a civil partnership that's just called marriage.

@daisypond

For those of you who are keen on Mrs, what would you think if all adult women were, by default, Mrs? Would you want another title to indicate marriage? Personally, I’d be happy if all women were Mrs, if Ms is too much for many to tolerate.

This is a great question!

@daisypond

For those of you who are keen on Mrs, what would you think if all adult women were, by default, Mrs? Would you want another title to indicate marriage? Personally, I’d be happy if all women were Mrs, if Ms is too much for many to tolerate.

Why are you so hellbent on everyone being the same and removing other people’s choices? It’s just bizarre.