Stop asking if I’m Mrs or Miss

[catspyjamas123]

I just hate it when companies ask if I’m Mrs or Miss - what business is it whether I’m married or not? I’ve politely put up with it for years but it makes me fume. They don’t ask men if they are married. Even worse, some companies assume I am a Mrs. I am NOT. I am very happily divorced and definitely a Ms. Are they being unreasonable? Vote yes if it’s a completely unnecessary intrusion into your home life. Vote no if it’s quite alright to all live in a 1950s nightmare!

Sorry I’ve got waaaay better things to do with life than stress about a title. Not bothered in the slightest.

I’ve been happily married for a decade and retained my maiden name. I always use Ms - it’s no-one’s business whether I’m married or not and I object to being asked unless it’s genuinely relevant. It has literally no bearing on most things I might be registering/applying for...

Seriously??? This is what people get bothered about? If you get married, chances are you WANTED TO, so why does it matter if people know?

You see, these are the responses I can't make out. 'It's not something I can bring myself to get uptight about'. Or 'You're insecure if you object to an archaic, discriminatory system'. Say what? I'd have thought the reverse is true, in that women are now seeing they don't have to accept the constraints of a patriarchal naming and status system.

Fair enough to the ones who respond as to how happy they were to take their husbands' names. I don't compute it, but no one's forcing me to do it. Other women can call themselves and style themselves whatever they like. That's not a thing - to use their terminology - I'm going to get het up about.

Like the women who insist upon 'Mrs' I have no wish to hide the fact that I'm married. I wear my wedding ring by choice (as does DH). I saw no reason to relinquish my family name into the bargain, and am no less married for the fact that I chose not to do this. That isn't the issue here.

A system that assumes women's sexual availability and status on first greeting - a distinction that isn't applicable to men and is an expected divulgence from the moment they meet complete strangers - is another thing entirely. And that IS something it's worthwhile being pissy about. It's archaic, sexist, and downright discriminatory.

I'm not fussed and would happily accept 'Mrs' were this distinction bestowed on all women from the point of adulthood. As this isn't the case, 'Ms' it would have to be without the 'Dr' title, and I really don't see why anyone needs to attend university for 8 years minimum to be afforded that basic courtesy. And it bothers me. As does the continual privileging of men in society at women's expense; the affording of certain courtesies which are ONLY applicable to those members of society with a penis. If that's 'insecurity' (I'd prefer to call it 'discriminatory), then the cap fits and I'll wear it.

The measure of a woman's worth is not the ability to get and keep a man.

I am not a chattel. I have been Ms all my life and would not dream of using Miss or Mrs.

I once completed a form that did not have Ms as an option, I decided to be Professor

Completely agree. I am happily married but kept my own name so I have never been Mrs. Anybody. Technically I’m also not a Miss so I use Ms. Ms to me equals I don’t know you well enough to want to bother to explain my personal circumstances. I would be happy for that to be the default but I know some women don’t particularly like it which is their prerogative.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

Seriously??? This is what people get bothered about? If you get married, chances are you WANTED TO, so why does it matter if people know?

You see, these are the responses I can't make out. 'It's not something I can bring myself to get uptight about'. Or 'You're insecure if you object to an archaic, discriminatory system'. Say what? I'd have thought the reverse is true, in that women are now seeing they don't have to accept the constraints of a patriarchal naming and status system.

Fair enough to the ones who respond as to how happy they were to take their husbands' names. I don't compute it, but no one's forcing me to do it. Other women can call themselves and style themselves whatever they like. That's not a thing - to use their terminology - I'm going to get het up about.

Like the women who insist upon 'Mrs' I have no wish to hide the fact that I'm married. I wear my wedding ring by choice (as does DH). I saw no reason to relinquish my family name into the bargain, and am no less married for the fact that I chose not to do this. That isn't the issue here.

A system that assumes women's sexual availability and status on first greeting - a distinction that isn't applicable to men and is an expected divulgence from the moment they meet complete strangers - is another thing entirely. And that IS something it's worthwhile being pissy about. It's archaic, sexist, and downright discriminatory.

I'm not fussed and would happily accept 'Mrs' were this distinction bestowed on all women from the point of adulthood. As this isn't the case, 'Ms' it would have to be without the 'Dr' title, and I really don't see why anyone needs to attend university for 8 years minimum to be afforded that basic courtesy. And it bothers me. As does the continual privileging of men in society at women's expense; the affording of certain courtesies which are ONLY applicable to those members of society with a penis. If that's 'insecurity' (I'd prefer to call it 'discriminatory), then the cap fits and I'll wear it.

The measure of a woman's worth is not the ability to get and keep a man.

I couldn’t agree more

I honestly don't care enough about this sort of thing. It's irrelevant to my life.

And as for 'maiden' name 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

It is the legal default in this country to keep your birth name. Women have to chose to change their name

This. Is is not the law to change your name on marriage. You do not have to. In fact you have to go to quite a bit of trouble hauling your marriage cert around and getting documents reissued.

So if a woman changes her name it’s because she wants to. Not because she has to.

Same as Mrs. It isn’t “legal” and no one forces you to.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

I agree with you, I really hate that definition. 'Maiden name' is so outdated and, yes, misogynistic.

I agree OP, I think women should all be Ms - as for those who say they're 'proud' of being a 'Mrs' - give me strength! How is being married something to be proud of? As though it's some kind of achievement? There are millions of women trapped in miserable, abusive marriages. There are millions of women happily single or who would rather be alone than stuck with Mr Wrong.

I've literally never heard a man say he's proud of being married.

It may undermine the equality of the sexes in your opinion, but there are other opinions (some of them stated on this thread) which are just as valid. Mrs is a contraction of Mistress, which has been defined earlier up the thread as

Just because you have an opinion, it doesn't mean it is valid.

Just because you have an opinion, it doesn't mean it is valid

Every opinion is valid, regardless of whether you agree with it.

@BoggledBudgie

You’re being unreasonable - as in, yes they should be using your proper title. Men don’t get asked because they only have one title.

Which is an issue in itself!

@VinylDetective

Just because you have an opinion, it doesn't mean it is valid

Every opinion is valid, regardless of whether you agree with it.

Not true. An opinion has to be based on sensible reasoning to be valid.

So let's have a campaign.
Let's follow the French and other European nations.
Let's have 'Mrs' for all women over approx 20, regardless of marital status.
Offends no-one. Is based on centuries old historical practice.
Refers to a title of hnour: in the past, 'Mrs' = a woman of adult years worthy of respect.
Can anyone really object to that?

Sorry, I'm going to be an awkward bugger. I reverted to Miss after being a Mrs. As others have said Ms is most often associated with women who are divorced so I opted for Miss in defiance and I cannot embrace Mrs because it was not a happy experience. It might work going forward though if everyone became Mrs as an adult and it wasn't a title associated with marriage.

I have researched buying titles, off the back of reading this thread, and I'm quite tempted to pay £200 to be able to call myself Lady just to take the piss. I saw someone say they were planning to call themselves Rev, is this legal? I would also be happy to go with that for a bit of fun.

An opinion has to be based on sensible reasoning to be valid

Indeed. Sensible reasoning comes in many guises.

As others have said Ms is most often associated with women who are divorced

It isn’t, though. Some people (younger) may think that, but they’re wrong.

Yanbu. I think the default for adult women should be 'Ms'. Miss is a female child. If a woman wants to be Mrs that's her choice, but it irritates me to be asked 'Mrs or Miss?' when men are just Mr.

I am Ms!

It's never bothered me, either when I was Miss or now I'm Mrs. They just want to know how to address you.

@HarrietOh

When you go by Ms. this is VERY annoying. A simple, "what is your title?" would suffice.

When I have to register women on the system at work, I ask “what title do you prefer?. At least 50% of the time I get a blank stare until I offer “Ms? Mrs? Miss?”

@giantangryrooster is that Italy? I had an Italian client the other day and when I asked her she answered “oh, put whatever you like darling, we don’t use titles where I am from”. I was quite impressed/jealous.

[quote Musmerian]@Searchesforhipbones - but it is the legal default to keep your own name. When you get married if you want to change it you have to do so pro actively.[/quote]
Yes I know this, I kept my own name - but you are allowed to change your name if you want. I believe in many countries it’s almost impossible to do so even if you wanted to. France, Italy and poss Spain, poss Germany.

European mumsnetters, is it even possible or socially desirable to change names on marriage where you are?

China women keep names I believe?
Ditto Middle East / Arabic cultures?

Loving some of these comments.....

• implying you’re not happily married if you don’t use mrs
• astonished that anyone gets riled up by something so trivial......goes on for two pages getting riled up that anyone gets riled up about this
• no idea who provides my electricity my husband does that stuff

😂😂😂😂😂😂

• When someone asks me “is it miss or mrs”

The question they’re really asking is “are you married?”*

No, they are asking how you wish to be addressed!

I can only think of two people in my social circle who use Ms. neither have been married, both live with male partners.

My divorced (female) friends are still Mrs. my married friends are Mrs. my widowed friends are Mrs. , my never married friends and my daughter and her friends are Miss. , my married lesbian friends and family are Mrs.

Why not just let people use the title they choose? It’s interesting that some on this thread think less of me because I’m a married woman who took her husbands name 30 years ago and uses Mrs. without knowing anything else about me!

European mumsnetters, is it even possible or socially desirable to change names on marriage where you are?

I spend a lot of time in France. My French married friends all use the husbands surname.