Stop asking if I’m Mrs or Miss

[catspyjamas123]

I just hate it when companies ask if I’m Mrs or Miss - what business is it whether I’m married or not? I’ve politely put up with it for years but it makes me fume. They don’t ask men if they are married. Even worse, some companies assume I am a Mrs. I am NOT. I am very happily divorced and definitely a Ms. Are they being unreasonable? Vote yes if it’s a completely unnecessary intrusion into your home life. Vote no if it’s quite alright to all live in a 1950s nightmare!

It defines my legal status, nothing more.

But in most contexts, marital status is irrelevant. Or, at least it is for men.

Can I ask what measures your husband takes to ensure everyone is aware of his legal status as your husband?

They didn't ask if you were married or not though. They asked for your title. Probably so they know what to address you as in conversation.

It is a legal title as verified by the marriage certificate you signed.

'Mrs' is a traditional title for a married woman. However, it has no legal status. Where is the word mentioned on your marriage cert?

@IcedPurple

It defines my legal status, nothing more.

But in most contexts, marital status is irrelevant. Or, at least it is for men.

Can I ask what measures your husband takes to ensure everyone is aware of his legal status as your husband?

He wears a wedding ring and ticks the correct marital status box on any forms which require completing.

Does anyone know if in France companies automatically change your title from Mlle to Mme on correspondence?

I think the only way to change our system would be if women agreed to all adopt either Mrs/Ms as soon as they become an adult but it would be a faff if correspondence didn’t update automatically. And since it’s unlikely that women would agree on which title to go for, I can’t see it ever changing.

He wears a wedding ring and ticks the correct marital status box on any forms which require completing.

Presumably you do the same. So why do you need an additional measue to ensure everyone knows you got hitched, but your husband does not?

Ms is godawful, although I understand why divorcees or older unmarried women might prefer it. However, I don't want to be lumped into one homogenous category of Ms because some women like finding things to get offended about.

There we have it in all its unloveliness - the sneering belief in their superiority coming from the smugly married.

Why the fuck is Ms "understandable" for use by "divorcees and older unmarried women?"

How about my relationship with a man being of no fucking relevance when I'm buying a car or ordering a takeaway? That would be nice.

Given the choice is between "sexually available" "sexually unavailable" and "lesbian, divorcee or older unmarried woman" (lol) I'll choose "fuck off" every time.

@Turgha

Does anyone know if in France companies automatically change your title from Mlle to Mme on correspondence?

I think the only way to change our system would be if women agreed to all adopt either Mrs/Ms as soon as they become an adult but it would be a faff if correspondence didn’t update automatically. And since it’s unlikely that women would agree on which title to go for, I can’t see it ever changing.

The term Mlle is no longer allowed to be use in any official context in France.

Besides, it refers to age, not marital status. The English equivalent would be 'young lady'.

@IcedPurple

He wears a wedding ring and ticks the correct marital status box on any forms which require completing.

Presumably you do the same. So why do you need an additional measue to ensure everyone knows you got hitched, but your husband does not?

I don't need it, I like it, I chose to use that title. Others choose differently, which is their prerogative. I am confident enough to understand it has no relevance to my personal value, nor does it denote inferiority or that I am a chattel!!

I get it but the amount of times I've addressed a letter or invoice to a ms and then had a call from an angry woman telling me it's either Miss or Mrs is unreal. I don't ask what they prefer to be called unless they volunteer the information themselves.

@Venicelover

People can only make you feel inferior with your consent

That's good, when some people like yourself are so desperately patronising.

Saying you are Mrs doesn't give them an accurate record of whether you are single or married though. I'm Mrs but not married as I'm a widow.

It’s not an accurate record at all when I am called Mrs and the surname used is the one I was born with. Funny the smug marrieds looking down at everyone else. Your day will come.

I don't need it, I like it, I chose to use that title. Others choose differently, which is their prerogative. I am confident enough to understand it has no relevance to my personal value, nor does it denote inferiority or that I am a chattel!!

So what do you think are the origins of the tradition whereby women change their names and get called Mrs. after marriage, but men's names and titles remain entirely unaffected by any change in their marital status?

[quote Eckhart]@Venicelover

People can only make you feel inferior with your consent

That's good, when some people like yourself are so desperately patronising.[/quote]
Not sure how you reach that conclusion when I was responding to this:
It makes me fume. Anyone who thinks it's a fuss about nothing pisses me off too. It's not ok to be defined by my relationship to a man, thanks, you can fuck off. It's an outdated indicator of the patriarchy

It was a rant I disagreed with.

Call yourself what you wish, but don't deny the rest of us the same choice.

If you aren't married or don't want to disclose, that is fine. Others are happy to do so.

I'm going with the recommendation up thread - and using Rev in future! Brilliant.

I'm a happily married - but sick of being asked the Miss or Mrs question in situations where it's utterly unnecessary.

YANBU. It really annoys me that in this day and age if you are woman the title you have reflects whether or not you're married, but not if you're a man. Do the women that are happy to use Mrs not see the incredible sexism that they are helping to continue. I don't really see why we need titles at all. Whether or not you're male or female is almost entirely irrelevant (or should be) as is whether you are married so why do they exist?

So in summary:

Dr- ideas above their station and should stop showing off and learning things.
Ms- for feminists and other ragged old harridans that either can’t find a man, got dumped by a man, or get wound up and offended easily. Rants about equality.
Miss- poor love, can’t find a man - head tilt. Should get themselves down to the RSPCA for a cat

Mrs. Acceptable. Women like being called Mrs, and like people knowing that they have reached the legal status of marriage. After all wouldn’t want anyone thinking they are any of the above.

Women are still defined, and want to be defined, by their status as good wife and mother.

If you aren't married or don't want to disclose, that is fine. Others are happy to do so.

Whether or not you are happy to disclose is irrelevant really. Do you not get the fact that you are supporting a very sexist system using Mrs?

Your day will come.

What is that supposed to mean?

@Turgha

Does anyone know if in France companies automatically change your title from Mlle to Mme on correspondence?

I think the only way to change our system would be if women agreed to all adopt either Mrs/Ms as soon as they become an adult but it would be a faff if correspondence didn’t update automatically. And since it’s unlikely that women would agree on which title to go for, I can’t see it ever changing.

Good point. On reflection perhaps every woman should use the title Mrs whether or not they are married.

I agree OP. I’ve been married twice and have changed my name twice (for several reasons), but don’t use Mrs. I go along with “Mr & Mrs Weiss” in hotels etc., but if doing anything alone I’m Ms Weiss, if I absolutely have to have a title at all. Occasionally meeting minutes list attendees as Mr Jones and Mrs Smith etc. This gives me the absolute rage (disproportionate, obviously), not least because you often can’t actually identify who the people are from just their surnames.

Perfectly happy to be mistaken for a divorcee or lesbian. My aim is to confuse.

@Venicelover

Much ado about nothing

You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about it though

What you were responding to is irrelevant. This was a deeply condescending post. The fact that you think some people deserve such condescension simply compounds it.

@Belladonna12

If you aren't married or don't want to disclose, that is fine. Others are happy to do so.

Whether or not you are happy to disclose is irrelevant really. Do you not get the fact that you are supporting a very sexist system using Mrs?

It is very relevant. It is about choice. What is feminism if not the ability to choose what suits you as a woman? I don't view it the way you do. Is that acceptable?

FYI, my actual title is Dr (not medical) but I only use that professionally.

[quote Eckhart]@Venicelover

Much ado about nothing

You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about it though

What you were responding to is irrelevant. This was a deeply condescending post. The fact that you think some people deserve such condescension simply compounds it.[/quote]
In your opinion. Does that make your post patronising or simply an opposing viewpoint?