to think if you have been social distancing, then you shouldn't need to self isolate?

[chomalungma]

Let's say hypothetically you had a work colleague who you have been meeting with but you followed social distancing guidelines.

They then test positive and claim that you have been a close contact.

You get the phone call and are told to self isolate - but you know that the only person you have been in contact who has tested positive was someone who you have been socially distanced from.

Why should you self isolate?

It really is irrelevant whether Boris claims he was "following the rules". There's photo evidence of him being closer than 2 metres and not wearing a mask. The fact that he has been isolated as a close contact further backs that up.

@DumplingsAndStew

It really is irrelevant whether Boris claims he was "following the rules". There's photo evidence of him being closer than 2 metres and not wearing a mask. The fact that he has been isolated as a close contact further backs that up.

I think that's the reality.

If he had been following the rules, then according to the guidelines, he shouldn't need to have been contacted as he wasn't a close contact under the Government definition.

So he wasn't following the rules.

It is clear that what OP is saying is that it appears as though boris is doing more than is required by the rules, and saying that it's not clear what message that is supposed to send to everyone else.is it enough to follow the rules to the letter, or are we supposed to go further, if we are supposed to go further, where is the guidance as to what is appropriate?

Furthermore, if we are expected to further, how would this work in in instances where, for example, an employer will only continue to pay us through an isolation required by the rules, but will, for example, not pay us if we go further than the rules and exercise more caution?

The point being that either we have the rules which we must follow, or there are no rules and we must exercise maximum caution. It's not fair to provide a set of legally mandated rules, but then expect people, at cost to themselves, to arbitrarily impose further unwritten measures on themselves.

I think the point is Johnson wasn’t following the rules and he’s been contacted by the Dido Squad and therefore has to self isolate?

@TheScreamingLady

In my work place if one of our colleagues tests positive we are still expected to attend work, as we are ‘COVID secure’ and shouldn’t have been within 2m of each other.

Same...

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Oh come on it's obvious this is political. Boris has made a song and dance of saying he'll isolate, clearly to send a "the rules apply to everyone, we're all in this together" vibe and try to encourage more compliance with lockdown.

But to me he is sending out the opposite message. The rules don't apply to everyone. He's clearly lying about having kept to the social distancing rules during that meeting. That's why he's having to self isolate. If he kept to the rules he wouldn't need to self isolate as he wouldn't meet the official criteria. Why didn't he keep to his own rules? He's our PM for Christ sake and has a rather important few weeks ahead of him!

But what makes it worse is that so many people are being told by their (often government run) workplace to turn off the app as they are COVID secure. Why didn't he turn his app off? Surely his own office should be COVID secure? Probably more so than a classroom of 30 15 year olds or a ward full of covid patients with a cheap plastic apron, surgical mask and cheap latex gloves as their 'covid secure' protection! We're not all in it together.

@jasjas1973

Are there any other world leaders who having caught CV, then manage to come into close contact with an infected person and have to self isolate?

For me, the issue isn't that BJ is isolating but that he has yet again put himself in this situation.

Lots of people have no choice if it's their job. This isn't just about world leaders.

For example doctors and nurses aren't world leaders but even after catching covid they have no choice but to return to work and work in the same circumstances which probably led to them catching it the first time.

I caught covid at school a few weeks ago despite being careful as I'm clinically vulnerable. I'm planning in returning to work next week. I can try and be careful again but the reality is that on the first morning I will again be within close contact with the children without masks, etc and no other forms of protection bar an open window and some anti bac gel. If there is a covid case in one of the classes I teach I will have to SI.

Unfortunately SDing isn't a possibility for all work places, even if you've already been ill before.

But to me he is sending out the opposite message. The rules don't apply to everyone. He's clearly lying about having kept to the social distancing rules during that meeting. That's why he's having to self isolate. If he kept to the rules he wouldn't need to self isolate as he wouldn't meet the official criteria. Why didn't he keep to his own rules? He's our PM for Christ sake and has a rather important few weeks ahead of him!

Exactly.

Unfortunately SDing isn't a possibility for all work places

Indeed. I don’t think a large room in Downing Street with two people in it who could sit apart, open all the windows and wear masks really falls into this category where it’s impossible though. If for example teachers are being expected to do it in small classrooms with 30 other moving bodies in them, why couldn’t Boris set an example?

I wonder how Cabinet Meetings are held?

I guess that's a long meeting. What if a Cabinet Member was ill in Cabinet?

I have a friend who is shielding, literally hasn't been out of the house or met anyone at all. Was contacted by T & T and told to self-isolate. No idea how they got it wrong, whether it was someone maliciously giving her details or some sort of mistake in the system or some human error, but she now legally has to obey the order. Obviously doesn't make much difference to her because she's semi-permanently self-isolating anyway. But it did make me lose confidence in the system.

Another friend tested positive but t & t had no record of his test and ended up calling him over 40 times to check he was self-isolating as the contact of someone who had tested positive. He had to keep explaining to them that no he wasn't self-isolating any more because he'd done his self-isolation after a test result and he wasn't obliged to do more days because of his contact. The system genuinely doesn't seem able to cope with the idea that someone can be simultaneously a contact of an infected person and infected themselves, which is ridiculous.

The whole T & T system seems to be almost useless, and yet you have to comply with an instruction to self-isolate if they contact you, regardless of whether you actually had any contact with an infected person or not. I'm not arguing about Boris Johnson, who was probably playing fast and lose with the rules anyway, but talking about people who have had literally zero chance of having had contact with an infected person being forced to self-isolate.

Would the app have told Boris whom fetched him or is he just assuming who it is?

Social distancing and masks aren’t magic, you can still get it by being in the same room as someone for a few minutes. If that persons has walked around the room/you’re in their house you’re just breathing in virus laden air particles, it’s airborne.

@Letseatgrandma

Would the app have told Boris whom fetched him or is he just assuming who it is?

Infected, not fetched!

@chomalungma

Let's say hypothetically you had a work colleague who you have been meeting with but you followed social distancing guidelines.

They then test positive and claim that you have been a close contact.

You get the phone call and are told to self isolate - but you know that the only person you have been in contact who has tested positive was someone who you have been socially distanced from.

Why should you self isolate?

Were you sporting a mask, though?

@Letseatgrandma

Would the app have told Boris whom fetched him or is he just assuming who it is?

Doesn’t tell you anything. Not even postcode.

@SunShinesStill

Social distancing and masks aren’t magic, you can still get it by being in the same room as someone for a few minutes. If that persons has walked around the room/you’re in their house you’re just breathing in virus laden air particles, it’s airborne.

Thankyou for explaining that. It's not like I didn't realise that the virus is airborne and you can catch it even if you are more than 2m apart.

However - this is about the official guidelines.

If the PM is being told to self isolate even though he has 'allegedly' followed the guidelines, then surely anyone who has had a similar meeting should self isolate - even if they have followed the guidelines.

@SunShinesStill

Social distancing and masks aren’t magic, you can still get it by being in the same room as someone for a few minutes. If that persons has walked around the room/you’re in their house you’re just breathing in virus laden air particles, it’s airborne.

I get that but I'm not allowed to self isolate even though on a near daily basis I have yet another student test positive for covid after spending 2 hours in a classroom with them. I may well have breathed in airbourne particles or touched a surface they've touched.

Even in that published photo of the pair of them they're not 2m apart, 1m maybe. He's a total fuckwit.

So basically, the government's rules on this are overly complicated, illogical and ineffective. As they have been with basically every other aspect of this pandemic.

As someone on the outside looking in, it's hard to understand how the UK government has managed to botch pretty much every single step of this.

@WhyNotMe40

Secondary school teachers aren't allowed to self isolate if there has been a case in the class they taught. Even if they were symptomatic (coughing but returned to class after being sent to be isolated) and on the front row Because apparently we stay 2m distant "where possible"...

This is not true.

Which bit isn’t true, @MzHz?

Secondary school teachers aren't allowed to self isolate if there has been a case in the class they taught. Even if they were symptomatic
Yes. DD was teaching Y11 last week for 5 hours. A boy on the front row tested positive but DD is not allowed to self isolate. No masks in class.

Oh it's true.
In a hospital staff don't have to self isolate as long as they were wearing PPE.
Teachers are not allowed to wear PPE. They are told that opening a window and standing at the front of the class is "covid secure".
Ironically if a teacher tests positive the children from the front row are sent home.

@Tyzz

Have the Government any restrictions to teachers wearing PPE?

That's certainly not the case here.

@Tyzz

Oh it's true. In a hospital staff don't have to self isolate as long as they were wearing PPE. Teachers are not allowed to wear PPE. They are told that opening a window and standing at the front of the class is "covid secure". Ironically if a teacher tests positive the children from the front row are sent home.

Depends on the school, surely.

Y7 DS2’s school has them in class bubbles with a single teacher. If anyone tests positive, including the teacher, they all self-isolate.

Now I am puzzled

No 10 rejects claims PM having to self-isolate because he ignored Covid safety rules

Much of the No 10 lobby briefing was taken up with questions about Boris Johnson’s self-isolation regime at No 10, and whether or not he’s been observing social distancing properly. Here are the main points.

Johnson will still be working from his No 10 office, even though he has to self-isolate, the PM’s spokesman said. The spokesman said Johnson was able to access his office from his No 10 flat without having to pass through areas of the building that would bring him into contact with other people.

The spokesman claimed that social distancing was observed at the No 10 meeting last week leading to the PM’s self-isolation and that Downing Street was a Covid-secure workplace. The spokesman said:

Social distancing was observed at the meeting. It is also the case that No 10 is a Covid-secure workplace.

We take every possible step to ensure that hand sanitiser is made available to people as soon as they arrive at the building and it is available throughout the building as you travel through it.