to think if you have been social distancing, then you shouldn't need to self isolate?

[chomalungma]

Let's say hypothetically you had a work colleague who you have been meeting with but you followed social distancing guidelines.

They then test positive and claim that you have been a close contact.

You get the phone call and are told to self isolate - but you know that the only person you have been in contact who has tested positive was someone who you have been socially distanced from.

Why should you self isolate?

But sd isn't 100% guaranteed not to get infected? Virus won't know if you are 1m 99cm away or 2m away, or you spent less than 15 minutes or 3 hours.
I don't understand the angst, whatever people did, it's good someone self isolate if there's the chance rather than ignoring it?

Because there’s still a chance of disease transmission. You can’t just take someone at their word that they stood X distance away from someone at all times during the entire working week. Else everyone would say that to get out of self isolating and cases would inevitably rise.

I would definitely not want to see all government meetings carried out on zoom . I really don't think they would be secure .

its another case of he cant win

if he ignored track and trace he would be wrong - if he self isolates he is wrong .

Are there any other world leaders who having caught CV, then manage to come into close contact with an infected person and have to self isolate?

For me, the issue isn't that BJ is isolating but that he has yet again put himself in this situation.

Ignoring that the virus can quite clearly still transmit more than 2 metres, most people are clueless as to what 2 metres actually is. Most people seem to reckon standing an arms length away is sufficient and 'around 2 metres'

@Unsure33

I would definitely not want to see all government meetings carried out on zoom . I really don't think they would be secure .

Do you really think GCHQ and the might of the state do not have secure comms?

It's another case of one rule for them and one rule for us. So many other workplaces including the NHS, Schools, Factories, Shops etc have been told to ignore / turn off the app as we are 'COVID secure'. Why isn't our own PM's workplace 'covid secure'? I fear that yet again he's not telling the truth and he was not socially distancing enough.

@jasjas1973

Are there any other world leaders who having caught CV, then manage to come into close contact with an infected person and have to self isolate?

For me, the issue isn't that BJ is isolating but that he has yet again put himself in this situation.

How has he "put himself in this position"? He was doing his job, which sometimes involves being in meetings with people. One of those people turned out to be infectious. He has been contacted by Test & Trace and has to isolate.

NHS website distinguishes between NHS Test & Trace and the NHS COVID App so whether the app was on or off or whether the location is "COVID secure" is irrelevant. He has been told to self isolate and is legally required to do so.

@jasjas1973

Are there any other world leaders who having caught CV, then manage to come into close contact with an infected person and have to self isolate?

For me, the issue isn't that BJ is isolating but that he has yet again put himself in this situation.

Well Trump has done this multiple times, but doesn't bother to isolate.

I don’t see the problem here. He’s been asked to self isolate and is doing so. If he didn’t there would be uproar. He’s actually setting a good example by following the test and trace rules. You may not like him, you may not agree he is doing his job, but he isn’t being irresponsible by self isolating - quite the reverse.

Because social distancing reduces transmission not stops it
Because even if you're in a meeting 2m apart, you might have all opened the door with the same handle, used the same toilet, touched the same handrail etc going in and out. It's not failsafe

Keeping 2 metres apart doesn't mean you won't catch it. Surely all these places saying you can carry on working are breaking the law?

@Unsure33

I agree most places can not be covid "secure" you are just minimising risk and ventilation is just as important as distance .

I think people just don't want to realise the aim is to minimise not eliminate .

Is it too complicated ? or too frightening ?

I think people also forget that we haven’t minimised and that you can’t minimise a virus we don’t have a vaccine for without periodic lockdowns.

@SoupDragon
For me, the issue isn't that BJ is isolating but that he has yet again put himself in this situation

How has he "put himself in this position"? He was doing his job, which sometimes involves being in meetings with people. One of those people turned out to be infectious. He has been contacted by Test & Trace and has to isolate

His job is to lead the country through both CV and Brexit, so in this context, F2F meetings with constituency MP's are not necessary, the guidelines clearly state WFH, no unnecessary travel, so that MP, by going to no10 has put plenty of others at risk of CV...... all for a photo opportunity.

Of course he has to isolate now.

What test and trace rule applies in this situation?

Can someone point out the actual rule that means he officially has to self isolate?

If the only rule is that he has to self isolate because he has been told to then that seems strange.

If you get told by track and trace to isolate then just isolate. Why are people looking for loopholes?
People have constantly looked for loopholes so they can carry on doing what they want, just bloody follow the guidelines to bring the cases down.
Social distancing isn't 100% so just social distancing wont stop you getting it. Social isolation will stop you passing it on.

there is a little cynical voice in my head that says this is a very convenient 'example of what to do' to set plus it may avoid him having to publically answer any questions about the whole Cummings/advisers/Carrie fiasco

@Rosebel

Keeping 2 metres apart doesn't mean you won't catch it. Surely all these places saying you can carry on working are breaking the law?

If staff can be 2m apart/wear PPE they can attend work.

That’s part of “COVID safe”.

It may not remove the risk, but it massively reduces the risk.

"If the only rule is that he has to self isolate because he has been told to then that seems strange"

I don't get it. You have been told to self isolate, so you self isolate. Why do you need to find other reason to self isolate or not.

@chomalungma

What test and trace rule applies in this situation?

Can someone point out the actual rule that means he officially has to self isolate?

If the only rule is that he has to self isolate because he has been told to then that seems strange.

The test and trace rule is that he has been told to by T&T. Which means that the situation will likely have been assessed by public health officials using a more nuanced rule that the public message.

Basically, if you are indoors with people outside your household you should be wearing a mask at all times as well as social distancing. It not a bad rule for outside as well but less necessary. If you can avoid being indoors with other people you should and should keep it as short as possible.

The meeting might have been necessary F2F. I’d argue that a breakfast meeting and photo OP was probably not necessary and they should have been wearing masks at all times.

@Nottherealslimshady

If you get told by track and trace to isolate then just isolate. Why are people looking for loopholes? People have constantly looked for loopholes so they can carry on doing what they want, just bloody follow the guidelines to bring the cases down. Social distancing isn't 100% so just social distancing wont stop you getting it. Social isolation will stop you passing it on.

I would normally agree with you but why is the government basically saying one rule for them and one for us, teachers especially? Why are we told to ignore track and trace / turn off the app, yet he has to follow the rules?

Because maybe the person who is ill got it wrong?

@NettleTea

there is a little cynical voice in my head that says this is a very convenient 'example of what to do' to set plus it may avoid him having to publically answer any questions about the whole Cummings/advisers/Carrie fiasco

This.

Also a golden opportunity to draw a line in the sand post Cummings by making a big deal out of Doing The Right Thing.

A simple "the PM is self-isolating" would be sufficient, but there's an awful lot of "look at me doing the right thing" virtue signalling going with it. I smell spin doctors.