to think if you have been social distancing, then you shouldn't need to self isolate?

[chomalungma]

Let's say hypothetically you had a work colleague who you have been meeting with but you followed social distancing guidelines.

They then test positive and claim that you have been a close contact.

You get the phone call and are told to self isolate - but you know that the only person you have been in contact who has tested positive was someone who you have been socially distanced from.

Why should you self isolate?

Kafka would have a field day with this.

Basically, if you are indoors with people outside your household you should be wearing a mask at all times as well as social distancing

Unless you work in a school or other educational setting...

I wish we could ban the term covid secure. I suppose covid slightly less risky doesn’t have quite the same appeal.

@AaronPurr

Basically, if you are indoors with people outside your household you should be wearing a mask at all times as well as social distancing

Unless you work in a school or other educational setting...

Well quite. But they are all safe because of the magic walls and blue paper towel.

However "covid secure" employers may reckon their premises are, the fact that employees spend all day (and often long days) there is an increased risk and IMHO especially in a male dominated environment.

I've spoken to so many people who relate that it's mostly women being really careful in their homes and workplaces. Men are less likely to wash their hands regularly, leave enough space between them and colleagues in meetings/discussions/make sure they turn up with a mask and wear it throughout the "contact".

Boris is hoist by not just his own but also the Cummings petard here. He absolutely has to signal to the public that he is following the guidelines this time as he was careless previously and really suffered with Covid plus he didn't make Cummings fall on his sword back in April when DC clearly broke the rules and lied about his circumstances with Boris insulting our intelligence further, supporting his lies and actually saying he believed DC had "acted with integrity" .

Considering there's a photo of him not in a mask, probably closer than 2m apart and the windows are closed then I don't think Downing street is "covid secure".

It is a legal requirement in England to self isolate if told to. Otherwise you can get a £1000 fine.

Why was Lee Anderson travelling from Ashfield to London anyway? Before the latest lockdown Ashfield was in Tier 3, meaning that you’re not supposed to travel outwith the area?

@OoohTheStatsDontLie

Because social distancing reduces transmission not stops it Because even if you're in a meeting 2m apart, you might have all opened the door with the same handle, used the same toilet, touched the same handrail etc going in and out. It's not failsafe

So, exactly the same rules should apply when there is a positive case in the classroom, then?

It shouldn’t just be sending home the two children either side of the positive case and telling everyone else-particularly the teacher, or those students with vulnerable family members, that they’re fine as they should have been socially distancing.

Otherwise it is yet again one rule for the government and another rule for the rest of us.

So basically he has to self isolate because he has been told to self isolate even though he has allegedly followed the rules
He cannot appeal this. He can get fined for not self isolating. He can't put his point of view of the contact across and can't ask who the contact was.

Kafkaesque indeed

Nowhere indoors is Covid secure, no matter what businesses say.

The PM is self isolating and a lot of fuss is made. The Foreign Secretary is and I was unaware, thinking he might do PMQs on Wednesday.

The PM seems to have brought it upon himself and no sympathy. However, I hope that the MPs wife recovers 100%, who is in the vulnerable category apparently.

Also, the app is anonymous. So I’m not sure how he’s so certain he got it from the MP. No one would tell him where he got it from. If the app pinged him he could have been in contact with anyone who uploaded a positive test result. It’s probable he got it from the other MP but not impossible he was a contact elsewhere - a driver, staff member etc.

@whatswithtodaytoday

Nowhere indoors is Covid secure, no matter what businesses say.

Clearly.

In that case, if there is a positive case in the room, the others in the room should be self isolating and this should apply to other workplaces and schools. People should not be told to turn their apps off at work.

Was Boris Johnson wearing a mask?
Were the windows open?

Was Boris Johnson wearing a mask?
Were the windows open?

No and no.

If you DON'T have to then that would be another ridiculous rule that helps explain why the UK has done so badly in this pandemic, along with the likes of not mandating masks in classrooms.

In that case, if there is a positive case in the room, the others in the room should be self isolating and this should apply to other workplaces and schools. People should not be told to turn their apps off at wor

But the definition of close contact is 2m or less.

So if that's the rule, then it seems that other rules are being applied that aren't in the official rules.

Either it's indoors and 2 metres or less - or it's indoors and a certain time, regardless of the distance.

This happened to my husband, work colleague tested positive, despite my husband remaining more than 2 meters away at all times track and trace told him he still had to isolate

@chomalungma No time to read 4 pages BUT if no one has said this already SOCIAL DISTANCING REDUCES RISK BUT DOES NOT ELIMINATE IT.

I am sick of seeing people not understanding this.

There is research showing that being 2 mtrs away will reduce your risk especially if you wear masks and are not together for more than 15 minutes.

BUT it doesn't mean there is NO risk at all.

Some research shows you can be infected at 30 feet away if the person is coughing or sneezing, shouting or laughing.

Surely he should have had the app turned off in his ‘COVID secure’ workplace just like all NHS staff have been instructed?

The photo Boris) is not necessarily a recent one- does it say it is?

I really don't get the point. So if they were sding, you think people should challenge and not self isolate?
Even the person who is ill got it wrong, it's better to be cautious than end up spreading to others? Sound like you see this virus totally different from me.

I am sick of seeing people not understanding this

I understand this. I understand that you are at risk if you have been near someone who is positive.

BUT - there are rules to follow for self isolation and a hefty penalty if you don't follow them.

The rules over what is a close contact do not include someone who has been over 2m away.

They may be at risk - and I appreciate that.

But it's not a close contact under the rules.

@chomalungma Maybe you ought to read this- and the 3rd bullet point about airborne transmission.

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/scientific-brief-sars-cov-2.html

The virus can live in the atmosphere for hours.

Social distancing helps but it's not a guarantee by any means.

@JinglingHellsBells Then why are others being told that, as they've not been within 2m, as their workplaces are covid secure, that they do not need to self isolate, because they're not a close contact?