To cancel Christmas for 12 who won't behave at school

[Amira19]

I have a 12 year old and since the start of senior school hes constantly been in trouble, fighting, talking in class shouting out , swinging on chair etc. His attitude at me is appalling, I get told he hates mes scream and slams doors, doesn't want to help around the house and is awful to his siblings. He's the same at his dads house aswell.

He gets two of everything holidays presents etc. Me and his dad have been split since he was 1 and both been with our partners since ds was 2 so he's known know different. He has no issues with either step parent has good relationship with them both. He just doesnt seem to want to obey rules and often or not gets himself into trouble by showing off with his mates.

Hes had other 12 after school detention since starting back in September. I begged him to have a better year, family have tried talking to him without fail he can't seem to go a week without being in trouble. Hes lost his xbox, phone, bike etc but now ex is taking to losing Christmas money if he gets into trouble and reward it back when he has a good week, he wanted me to do the same but I'd feel uncomfortable him with nothing and my other dc with presents.

There's no bullying going on I have asked him if anything we think hes in the wrong crowd and playing up to the teachers. We are contemplating changing schools. Please no negative comments I already feel shit and embrassed by his behaviour and constant phone calls from the school.

What was he like in primary?

Happy children don't behave like that

I don’t know. Some of the worst behaved kids I have known came from loving families, parents together, not being bullied, and they were sporty, fit and confident. If they were deeply unhappy, I am at a loss to understand why. Some of them just did it because it got them the attention of their mates and made them ‘popular’.

Are you sure there is nothing going on with extended family?
His social circle at school?
Something on his mind?
Is he eating and sleeping well?
Has he been assessed for any behavioural issues?

I am not for one moment excusing his conduct, but you need to keep trying to get to the bottom of what's bothering him while ensuring that the negative behaviour is addressed.

Is he struggling academically and to detract from that and acting up instead?

It's really tough and I feel for you. I too would consider getting him some professional support, he may reveal something that you're unaware of.

He loves his siblings although he winds them up. We spoke about going to the doctor about him seeing someone and he said he doesnt need to and he's not angry.

I will be flamed, but with my chair swingers I make them stand up. @Amira19 I would start with a chat with the ht ASAP

Does he have problems with impulse control in general?

Hes really intelligent got good SATs but his presentation isn't the best. My df has terminal cancer but has for 4 years.

*Today 15:51flaviaritt

Happy children don't behave like that

I don’t know. Some of the worst behaved kids I have known came from loving families, parents together, not being bullied, and they were sporty, fit and confident. If they were deeply unhappy, I am at a loss to understand why. Some of them just did it because it got them the attention of their mates and made them ‘popular’.*

I feel like this is my son he is easily influenced

Christmas doesn't belong to him it belongs to the family and it's supposed to signify love and kindness.

Separate the behaviour and make the punishments relevant.

I have to say the schools are being draconian with Covid I imagine there is a lot of pushback at the moment

15:50Waveysnail

What was he like in primary?

He had his moments odd scuffle but not to the level like it has been at seniors. They weren't as strict.

I missed their call yesterday and they didn't answer when I rung back but will ring them tomorrow.

He just doesn't to have settled at that school tbh. He had been in trouble with the second week for a fight and breaking someone tie because one kid called me a stag.

MummyMiss I dont blame you.

Thats not me blaming the school but I'm.wondering if its the right fit and if he would be better someone else with a fresh start.

@Amira19

He loves his siblings although he winds them up. We spoke about going to the doctor about him seeing someone and he said he doesnt need to and he's not angry.

well, he won't be quick to agree, but a good counsellor will give him the space he needs.

My dd is havign counselling at the moment. Good family, no issues, all loving, lots of support and help and a decent life (holidays etc) but it hasn't stopped her from being massively angry about something, so she has meltdowns where she is violent.

Counselling is helping her to explore that. I have no idea what is behind it at the moment, but it is helping and she has calmed right down.

If he was physically ill, you would insist he went. But he is emotionally not OK.

12 is a horrible age, as i said before, and most kids struggle, and it is a fine line whether a kid is struggling because there is something wrong, or 'just' being a teen. But either way, a few sessions with a counsellor will help

@Amira19

They think twice about doing it again. I have also heard horrific stories so to me I’d rather their legs ache than their head get split open

@flaviaritt

Happy children don't behave like that

I don’t know. Some of the worst behaved kids I have known came from loving families, parents together, not being bullied, and they were sporty, fit and confident. If they were deeply unhappy, I am at a loss to understand why. Some of them just did it because it got them the attention of their mates and made them ‘popular’.

Yes, me too. Some of the most arrogant, rude disruptive children I’ve taught have come from loving, wealthy homes and are able, popular and talented.

@Amira19

Hes really intelligent got good SATs but his presentation isn't the best. My df has terminal cancer but has for 4 years.

I think both of those could be massive factors.

Sometimes when young people are intelligent they can’t cope with added pressure to keep up standards and that can lead to rebelling.

Your dad may have been ill for 4 years but there is a massive difference between the understanding on a 8 year old of a situation like that and that of a 10 year old.

I would say both are worth looking at closer

@Amira19

He has a very good family life he is equally involved in both sides inregards to treats and holidays hes never been left out and went to Turkey 2 one year, days out caravan holidays. Stuff like going out has been limited due to lockdown obviously but he does get 1 to 1 time.

But he can't have can he?

Something is wrong in his life and he is trying to tell you.

Trips to Turkey and a caravan don't make life good if something else is very wrong in his life

Go and talk to the school. Try and work out why he is doing this
They will be able to get him counselling, maybe you and ex could access counselling/parenting support as well.

• But he can't have can he?

Something is wrong in his life and he is trying to tell you.*

What's his concentration like? Does he give up if he thinks something is difficult? Sleeping? ADD is very under diagnosed abs may be worth exploring.

If it is peer pressure have you duscussed moving tutor groups.

With my Ds and x box. I gave him rewards for merits at school. So if he works hard in school he gets immediate reward.

I agree cancelling Christmas is a no.

My Ds gets pocket money for been a school boy. He is expected to help because he is part of the family.

We have also done thngs a get him to write a list of how we can have a happier home

We don't have your isues but my ds does have asd/ adhd so some may help

Medically I was thinking ahdh but if he didn't have impulse control issues in primary then perhaps not.

The problem with counselling is that there are dozens of boys in every Y7 group in the country with similar behaviour patterns, and amongst them are those who are abused, working through traumatic events, dealing with undiagnosed SN, or with SN but no support, and no money, time, staff or training devoted to it.
Then you have those who are just biding their time before joining the Bullingdon Club in six years.

I think the transition into senior school is incredibly hard for kids, especially if they move to a much stricter school. He’s clearly struggled with that move, throw in lockdown and a return to school with COVID changes and puberty and it’s a recipe for disaster. He probably won’t know himself what he’s struggling with and if everybody else seems to be coping, he’ll find it even harder. A lot of kids have found the return to school very difficult indeed and if he was struggling already, it’ll feel impossible to him so acting out is often a way to cope.

Instead of treating it as a discipline issue, try looking at it as a communication/relationship issue. Spend time with him, even playing xbox with him so you’re involved in his world, create space for him to talk if he wants to. Find things he’s good at and that you like about him and praise him through the roof for those.

I’d also let school deal with school behaviours and wouldn’t be punishing him twice eg I wouldn’t take away his privileges if he misbehaves at school because they’ve already punished him with a detention. I’d also talk to school and find out the kinds of things he’s being punished for - an element of carrying on is normal for young lads and while he needs to engage in class, it’s not fair to punish him for being a child.

Agree sanctions for at home behaviour and once it’s done it’s done - don’t keep bringing it up. Set him up to do well, and give him time and space - if he thinks he needs to carry on to get approval in his peer group it’ll be hard for him to change his behaviour because he’ll worry he’ll lose his friends which is important at his age.

Certainly don’t cancel Christmas - he needs unconditional love and acceptance and cancelling Christmas gives exactly the opposite message.

The book How to Talk so Teens will Listen and Listen so Teens will Talk is excellent for helping open up communication.

Having 4 adult children, one a nightmare, one a challenge, two easy, all are fine as adults. I've come to the conclusion that some kids don't suit being kids and you and they have to just get through it. Not sure if that is your problem but it definitely was with my nightmare.

12 is a HUGE testosterone jump with the boys. Yr8 is THE year for silly, peacocking behaviour. It's all about establishing social status.

Firstly: ask if he can move groups/forms into a different one, away from friends who he wants to show off too. If there's no audience, he may stop it. I also remove chairs of chair swingers for 10 minutes if they don't stop after warnings. It's dangerous (I taught a kid who fractured their wrist when they fell awkwardly backwards swinging on the chair). Get him onto head of year/house report and ask the pastoral lead to call you daily with his report.

At home, clear and consistent. Do well on your report = x box time and praise. Fail report = privileges removed. No arguments, no bargaining.

A week on report with no messing about = treat.

Reward when he does the right thing.

If he doesn't respond then get a meeting with school, speak to the SenCo. There may be an undiagnosed need there requiring investigation.