To say childcare costs are not a 'choice'

[Sabrina124]

I was speaking to a friend of mine, and we were discussing children and the costs of children today. I said the main concern for me is the costs of childcare as it would wipe out half our joint income one way or another. He said that childcare is a 'choice' and it is better for children to be looked after by their parents. His children were looked after by grandma and his wife worked evening jobs to look after theirs.

Ugh. Even if one of us gave up work, it would still obviously wipe out half the income. Which was my point. We don't have grandparents who could help. And my career is not something I can do in the evenings (nor is my husband's). So I don't think there would be much of a 'choice' in childcare costs? My point is the childcare would wipe out half our income whether one of us gave up work or they were in a nursery.

Sorry, just needed to vent as I find it so frustrating. The cost of childcare is the main thing stopping us from having a child and it's quite upsetting tbh.

He’s being a dick. And I say that as someone who is fortunate enough to have no childcare costs.

Of course it is. In the same way that you choose to have a child, knowing your situation. Obviously in many cases, especially now, situations can change post pregnancy but assuming your careers / jobs are the same as they were before you conceived, you have chosen a situation where either childcare or stopping work is necessary. There are other downsides to giving up work, both short and long term, financial and emotional / personal so even though it may wipe out one salary, it may still be worth using childcare. It should however be seen as wiping out X of family money, not just YOUR salary. The remaining income is likewise family money.

Not answering the question but have you looked into tax free childcare, child benefit and free education from 2(this depends on income) and universal free 15 hours for 38 weeks of the year from term after they turn 3.

For some families it is. For others, it’s a necessity. And yes, you could choose not to have kids and blah blah blah. But that has nothing to do with it. Once the children exist, they have to be cared for, either by parents or by hired help. And some families can only afford one of those two options.

Ugh, ignore him. He sounds like a twat. It many be a choice for some people, but it isn’t for you.

He’s a dick and is very lucky he has the option of grandparental help.

It's a harsh way to look at at, but having children is a choice. I can't afford either full time childcare or to drop down to one income.

What would his choice have been if grandma had to stop (the presumably free) childcare for whatever reason?

Strictly speaking 'everything' could be considered a 'choice'; having children is a 'choice' but he sounds a dick, why on earth are you even discussing this with anyone though? It's surely a personal matter between you and your DH.

It's semantics. It's a choice to have children in the knowledge that you have no free childcare from relatives. But you are correct in that, if you do go ahead, you have 2 choices and both result in a drop in income.

Sounds like he had the cushy end of it - I'd be on my knees after 10 hours with my toddler and 3 or 4 hours at work. He finishes work, comes home, puts kids to bed and then his time is his own.

He comes from a privileged position where it was a choice; we are the same as you and it wasn’t a choice if we were going to have children

It is a choice. Either you can afford them or you can’t. Children use up your financial and emotional resources. It’s not just the cost of childcare.

But having children is a choice.

And how you choose to fund the responsibility and the costs are also choices.

Where you live, your costs, these are all choices.

I don’t understand why you are upset.

You want children- a choice.

And therefore if that is what you really want- then you will have to make other choices about how to fund it.

One option is for a parent to stop work to look after the children and another option is to pay for childcare. Both are choices

It depends on your circumstances but yes it can be.

For example my best friends mum paused her career when she had her two dc. She worked evenings in a supermarket. When the dc were 3 she picked up her career, did her PhD and is now a top lecturer in her field. No her career wasn't something she could do in the evenings but she found a solution which enabled her to not pay child care costs.

If you can afford a drop in family income so one stays in their current role and the other picks up evening/weekend work then it is possible.

It is for some . It won't be for others. Only you know your true circumstances

So his wife took the hit and he thinks this is fine? His grandma looked after his children but his wife looked after theirs? She looked after the kids all day and then went out to work in the evenings - poor cow. I bet it wasn’t a fulfilling career for her!

You do have the choice of whether to have children or not, and when to do so, and what financial position you are in at that time. Some people choose to live in a cheaper area so that they can afford to reduce their hours and decrease childcare costs, for example. Or wait until they have X amount in savings. I'm not saying they're right or wrong to do so, but it is part of decision making process to weigh up the different options.

You have the choice of whether to pay for full time childcare or to reduce your hours. Either way you lose money however, and that is something to take into consideration when you choose to have a child.

He is a twat. Probably has no input into his child care arrangements as it’s all magically sorted for him by someone else.

Well parents generally have to choose between childcare costs or loss of income, prospects and pension.

There are some occasions where parents can juggle shifts or have relatives provide free care but for many thats not an option.

I think YAB a bit U. Sure, the guy is in a better position than you and sounds a bit insensitive. But of course it's a choice. Maybe not a good or easy one, but one that many people make.

A lot of people have this view. I know someone who is a SAHP, when lockdown happened their partner said don’t worry I’ll look after DC it’s not like you choose to put DC in nursery so you can work and get a break. Made me . Not sure if they were telling me to insult me for working or not

@WombatStewForTea has it in one!

Option 3: I worked evenings and weekends to avoid childcare costs. It wasn't fun. I did school run with DC1 and was at home with DC2 all day. When DH came in from his work, we were like a relay team, I went out to work til 10pm - only 2 nights a week. But also worked term time Sat and Sun (-- on time and a half! Bonus!) It was hard, but only for a couple of years

It may just be that me and DH. were very lucky with our jobs we were in but I do think people could be more creative to save childcare costs and I think these conversations should happen before you choose to get pregnant. Unless one person in the couple actually wants to be SAHP ( and I am saying that because in my group of girl friends only one of them actually wanted to continue working) there should be some exploration of how flexible your employer's might be and if they would consider condensed days or flexible hours/ evenings/ weekends as long as job gets done. I am in NHS so lots of flexibility with weekend working/ bank working/ long shifts/ night shifts etc. We were on fairly low salaries when first had children and we juggled a combination of above and managed to only have to pay for one child to have childminder once a week for about 4 months. I had 3 in 3.5 years so paying for childcare for 3 pre schoolers on our salary was never an option. With a bit of creativity, most couples can aim for the low earner to at least be earning their tax free allowance monthly which would make a huge difference to income. So having children is a choice that needs a plan in place and paying for childcare is one of those choices. Having children is always going to be more expensive than not having children

@MaryLennoxsScowl

So his wife took the hit and he thinks this is fine? His grandma looked after his children but his wife looked after theirs? She looked after the kids all day and then went out to work in the evenings - poor cow. I bet it wasn’t a fulfilling career for her!

That may be so but again it was still a choice they made as a family I guess

His children were looked after by grandma and his wife worked evening jobs to look after theirs

Says it all doesn't it? He thinks women should do the double shift to reduce the monthy outgoings.