To say childcare costs are not a 'choice'

[Sabrina124]

I was speaking to a friend of mine, and we were discussing children and the costs of children today. I said the main concern for me is the costs of childcare as it would wipe out half our joint income one way or another. He said that childcare is a 'choice' and it is better for children to be looked after by their parents. His children were looked after by grandma and his wife worked evening jobs to look after theirs.

Ugh. Even if one of us gave up work, it would still obviously wipe out half the income. Which was my point. We don't have grandparents who could help. And my career is not something I can do in the evenings (nor is my husband's). So I don't think there would be much of a 'choice' in childcare costs? My point is the childcare would wipe out half our income whether one of us gave up work or they were in a nursery.

Sorry, just needed to vent as I find it so frustrating. The cost of childcare is the main thing stopping us from having a child and it's quite upsetting tbh.

I very much agree with your friend and that’s speaking as someone with no grand parents childcare help.
It’s your choice to have a child and how many children to have (I had twins so not really my choice to have two but that risk was always there when I chose to get pregnant)
It’s your choice to live in the area you do and pay for the house and size of house.
It’s your choice to spend what earnings you have the way you do.
I have never paid for childcare.
I have the view (and I understand it’s controversial) that if you decide have a child, you need to be there to look after it (for the majority of the time) for the first few years until schooling starts.
It’s ironic that whilst the feminist movement has brought women’s rights so far in terms of working and women having a career, they have taken mums away from caring for their babies during the working week.
Society is now such that it’s difficult to function without 2 wages. Expectations of lifestyle mean that both parents ‘need’ to work and I’m not sure that’s the correct thing for the child.
Childcare is a choice, in my case I would have rather scraped by by whatever means I could but have been there for my babies, not handed their daily development over to a stranger

Glad he got to choose for other people to provide free child care that enabled his working life to remain unchanged.

Not so lucky for the grandparents or his wife who didn't get a choice after he made his choice.

We had no real choice in that w head kids and knew that either one of us have up work or reduced hours and used paid for child care. I reduced hours, didn't want to lose my career really and h was not in a position mentally where he could cope with reducing hours. It was a Bad time tbh. After having DC2 we had a period of time where childcare cost twice our (relatively.small) mortgage.

My parents refused to help which was their choice. I never dreamt of asking anyway as they made it clear when I was pregnant and they were on the verge of retiring that they didn't retire to become childcare. H and I had never counted on them anyway and had always expected that paid childcare was the only option for our situation.

Anyway. TL:DR is that man was a dick who made choices for others and is ignorant enough he can't see that.

I also add that childcare does cost money but you do get a benefit. Noone says i go to work but theres no point as the mortgage and food takes up halc my salary.

I agree with some of his sentiments - I think we as a society need to invest more in very young children being able to be with their parents/main attachment relationships for longer, and not rely as heavily on external childcare. I believe this is best for children. HOWEVER, the choice to do that can only happen with far more financial support from government for people to be able to stay at home or work part time. He is speaking from the privilege of being able to make those choices, and I agree with your point that in your circumstances you lose significant income either way. Don’t feel shit about that, not your fault.

It's a tough one and I think the onus is to frequently placed all onto the women and her employer to adapt and find family friendly options, which really needs to change. However if there can be flexibility from both ends there are certainly options for both to continue to work whilst not paying childcare, but realistically with a drop in hours from one or both of you in the early days.

I work a 12 hour shift on a Sunday (with unsocial hours enhancement) my husband works full time but compressed to 4 days a week and he WFH (he was meant to be working 1 day a week in the office but covid has but an end to that) and when my DD is in school full time I will be able to work another 12 hour shift (or 2) midweek only paying for breakfast club and after-school club.

So it's possible to find ways but it took a lot of negotiating to get where we are now. But if you don't ask you don't get!

He said that childcare is a 'choice' and it is better for children to be looked after by their parents. His children were looked after by grandma and his wife worked evening jobs to look after theirs.

Note the sex arrangements here - he said it was a choice, because his children were looked after by grandma and wife.

It's always a bloody choice for those who can force the other half of the population to sacrifice their lives to enable those choices. Britain is as sexist as it ever was.

It is a choice. There are loads of ootions depending on your family circumstances, it doesn't have to wile out half your family income

I changed jobs before getting pregnant so i had great maternity pay, cheap on site nursery and family friendly flexible working. They were choices i made to be able to have s child.

Snd also, the mobey i pay to my daughters nursery is the best money i spend all minth! To see how happy she is and how is learning and developing every day makes it worth it!

I think you need to look at your attitude to childcare, it seems very negative. Remember you are paying people to look after your child

I just wanted to point out that you have missed out one of the options - both parents go part time and do a bit of the childcare each. That means you have both probably got the option to increase your hours when free hours/school comes along and neither of you have had to drop down the career ladder.

As others have said, funny how "parents" should look after their children but he hasn't had to!

Don't forget that childcare costs are a temporary thing, you might have a few tough, scrimpy years, but it doesn't go on forever. Also, when deciding who does what, take the long term impacts on career/salary/pension into account as well as who earns more at the time. Taking a career break makes a big impact, so don't have one parent stop work completely on financial grounds because they happen to earn less when the children are born.

What type of employment are you in? Work as hard as you can, get promoted, change roles to increase earnings, save money to cover maternity leave. Use tax free childcare funding from the government? Not everyone struggles to pay it

We couldn’t afford to only have one of us work and we didn’t have any family who could help out, so having made the choice to have children, there was no viable choice than to pay for childcare.

Also agree that you haven’t considered both of you being part time. Eg if you both worked four days each and that covered the weekend for one of you ( which might involve a career change) then it would only be one day of nursery costs but 80% of your old income- possibly slightly more depending on tax.

And childcare costs reduce with 30 hours funded from three; and then school which means only wrap around care.

Anything that you choose to spend money on is a choice.

Size of mortgage; food bill; gym membership and it is up to you how to fund it

So by ‘choice’ he just meant that his wife should do it and then once they were in bed, she’d be able to go out to work.... so in other words, he didn’t have to do a single thing? Ugh indeed.

There is another element to the choice. If you cut back on other outgoings, you would have more of your salary left.

TV subscriptions
Latest phone
Takeout coffees
Mortgage/rent (would moving help)
Fewer takeaways/meals out
Fewer/cheaper clothes
Cheaper car
Smoking/drinking

They are all lifestyle choices that could be changed to counterbalance the cost of childcare

Well it is a choice, but it doesn't feel like one for many as the alternatives are so unpalatable.

He feels like it is a choice because he isn't the one being guilt tripped into sabotaging his career to facilitate the choice.

It’s definitely a choice - but one that both parents (if there are two) have a say in, and that one that they are both capable of avoiding IF they are willing to adapt and modify other aspects of their lifestyles. That includes the man also being willing to go part time or modify his work-life balance.

For some people, it won’t appear a ‘choice’ if so many other things are non-negotiable, eg yearly holidays, nice cars and clothes. Some things are difficult to avoid (mortgage payments) but more often than not, people want to maintain all aspects of a lifestyle that they love with no compromises.

If you have a child it needs childcare, either by you, orgs, or other family (or a mixture, which is the reality for most). This costs whoever gives it, in terms of you giving up or reducing work (or not taking up work) as well as the obvious direct nursery costs.

The choice to have a child is the choice to undertake childcare, whoever provides it, and this will have a cost.

He's very weird if he's saying you can have a child with no impact on finances, or potential income, other than to buy products.

So he was happy with his wife doing childcare all day and then working evenings on top, while he presumably enjoyed free time?

Poor woman.

I work minimum wage almost in a shop and can afford child care. I don't understand how people earning more can't afford it (just want something to bitch about perhaps and childcares are an easy target:( ?).

I do get tax free childcare so for every £8 I pay the government pays £2. Maybe look into this. We don't qualify for UC but are definitely not well off

@Giganticshark how much is childcare where you live? It's at least £60 a day in my area (south east)

It is a choice though, I chose to have a child, I chose to wait until my thirties when I was in a secure financial position and at a good point in my career, my husband and I chose to both work after DS was born, we choose to work in industries that mean we have to work during the week and unsocial hours.
DH and I both chose to consolidate full time hours into 4 days to reduce the need for childcare in the week, we choose the nursery that fit our parenting style, rather than the one with the most convenient hours, lots of choices made all with an impact on family life.

Some people choose to have a SAHP and be tighter financially, others choose to both be part time, my aunt and uncle joke they didn't see each other for several years as they worked opposing day and night shifts to accommodate childcare. Some choose a job they can work evenings or weekends, some choose remote work from home that can be done while children sleep; my friend is doing some remote reception work that's very flexible, a colleague's husband is a freelance graphic designer so does drop off and pick up and fits his work around the children -all choices people make regarding how to make family life work for them. So yes definitely choices.

Having children is a choice.

The cost of childcare (be it actual childcare fees or the loss of one wage or dropping down hours/getting a job to be able to work around eachother etc ) isn't,because someone has to look after those children.

However it's easy for someone who by the sounds of it was never responsible for looking after their own children to spout bullshit about how easy it is or "choices".

Ask child minders, different nurseries.
I'm sick to death of listening to parents who have been to ONE nursery, usually a chain, and they say its too expensive. Really really look around. Not everyone will be the same.

Its around 45-60 a day here. Iv lived in areas where some of the fancy pants nurseries charge 80.

Decent childcare is important, it's not about just keeping your child alive. There's more to it. It's an investment.

I think he’s right, it is a choice... your choosing to have children and not change your lifestyle, you say tour job can’t be done in the evenings, well the choice is, pay childcare, or work a job in the evenings (even if it’s not the job you want), or stay at home, or don’t have kids... choices

Well, having children is a choice. I pay childcare costs for breakfast club and school holidays as I have no family to help on a regular basis. I didn't work until DS started school. I think I was naive to the cost of childcare before I had a baby!