To say childcare costs are not a 'choice'

[Sabrina124]

I was speaking to a friend of mine, and we were discussing children and the costs of children today. I said the main concern for me is the costs of childcare as it would wipe out half our joint income one way or another. He said that childcare is a 'choice' and it is better for children to be looked after by their parents. His children were looked after by grandma and his wife worked evening jobs to look after theirs.

Ugh. Even if one of us gave up work, it would still obviously wipe out half the income. Which was my point. We don't have grandparents who could help. And my career is not something I can do in the evenings (nor is my husband's). So I don't think there would be much of a 'choice' in childcare costs? My point is the childcare would wipe out half our income whether one of us gave up work or they were in a nursery.

Sorry, just needed to vent as I find it so frustrating. The cost of childcare is the main thing stopping us from having a child and it's quite upsetting tbh.

Funny how he believes it's so much better for "a parent" to do it, only that parent is not actually him

I suppose, once you have a child, you can't choose whether to pay for their costs (including childcare) or not. But there are various options to choose from in how you go about it.

It is a choice because we have free access to everything we need to be able to choose whether or not we have children.

Your friend does sound like a twat though, he insists it better for children to be looked after by a parent yet his wife worked evenings and had to use a grandparent for childcare? What did he do? Prick.

To clarify - I am not talking about having children or not being a choice, of course that's a choice. I'm saying when they are here, surely the income drop due to childcare is not a choice? Either one salary drops due to staying at home, or half the joint income is wiped due to childcare costs.

He is an absolute dick. Notice how in both his examples, the women in his life had to compensate immeasurably so that he had the ‘choice’ not to spend money on childcare. Not everyone had a retired granny available to take on childcare or a wife with a flexible job that is happy to work evenings after a full day at home. And I say this as someone who had lots of childcare help and was a sahm. I understand that I was very fortunate, I don’t use my privilege as an excuse to judge others.

Not just rich people have children.
It does seem to be going that way though...

It maybe harsh but actually I do believe he has a point. Like anything children cost, and it’s the choice of the parents how they live with that. Some are lucky and have family who can help and thus they can both continue to work. Some are not so lucky and if they want children have to choose how childcare is covered, either by paying for full time cover thus losing income, by one parent not working, by working compressed hours, say 5 days into 4 and thus between you paying for 3 days, by changing jobs to accommodate working in the evening or whatever you choose. Just as it is your choice, knowing what it will entail to your lifestyle to have children or not

Well it is a choice, the choices are: dont have children, one of you leaves your current job to get evening work so theres always someone home with kids, paid childcare.

We didn't start trying until we could afford it, isn't that what you're meant to do? Wait until you can afford children before having them?
In our case, we run our own company and have properties so we've had to develop that to the stage that I'm not required on site, and DH has flexible hours so he gets to see baby.

Funny how he believes it's so much better for "a parent" to do it, only that parent is not actually him angry

This.

Funny it’s never the fathers job isn’t it? What if HE had to give up work or work evenings?

9/10 times having a child is a choice.
So in those situations the childcare costs that come with it are a choice as is the detriment to career..etc

Once a child is here though childcare costs aren’t a choice they’re just a burden. A child has to be adequately looked after which for those not lucky enough to have free family help means either paying nursery fees or sacrificing a wage.

It doesn’t matter how you lose the money if you’re still losing the money at the end of the day.

We have a baby and another on the way. We are lucky enough to have 2.5 days a week free childcare but I’ve still had to drop back in my career (no option for DH to) and lose half my salary. It feels odd to me that I’m considered ‘lucky’ by our society’s standards.

Ofc I could put them in nursery but 2 under 2 in nursery 2.5 days a week would cost far more than my part time wage x

Of course it’s a choice.
Doesn’t mean he’s not a dick though!

Don’t even get into a conversation with him about it. He’s rude and judgemental

What was annoying for me was someone once suggesting flexible working as if that eradicates the need for childcare.

Yes my employer (when I was employed, now a SAHM) was fine with me “working” from home with my toddler on occasion when they were ill (not much work done with a toddler around) and leaving half way through the afternoon for emergencies but how does flexible working mean you don’t need childcare?

Everything in life is a choice making a good choices secure your future.
It is tough my Dbro and his DW paid a fortune it was an investment in their careers their girls are teenagers now both parent's in secure well paid employment.
Ignore your friend.

What would he have done if granny and his wife had ‘chosen’ not to look after his kids for him? If his wife had told him he could ‘choose’ to work evenings and she could keep up with her own career would he have coughed up the money for childcare then, or would he have worked part time in a supermarket or got a cleaning job in the evenings?

He sounds rather old fashioned doesnt he? So quite happy for the "little woman" to put aside any Career Aspirations ,and work all day looking after DC and half the night too!Maybe let him know its the 21st century! Anyway lots of ways to make it work : 1/Try and save a pot of money to last a year or two until Govt help is avaliable .2/See if you can manage on one wage ,Cut down expenses ,maybe go to one car if possible 3/Consider a lodger (female or young Studentmaybe).Whatever you think .A lot of the time we spend money because its there ,rather than"needing " something .A few sacrifices here and there canmake a big difference really.

Even if one of us gave up work, it would still obviously wipe out half the income.

This is what makes the childcare costs a 'choice'

You do one or the other. Nobody is going into details about individual income and circumstances but ultimately if you have no grandparent help then your choose is to do it yourself or pay childcare.

It's all choice, just shit options.

You're right, there is a cost whatever you do. The choice element is whether you fund it by nursery, loss of earnings by going part time, loss of earnings by having SAHP, changing your lifestyle and living in a tent, or some combination of these.

FWIW it's a relatively short term issue. We built up a credit card debt which we paid off once dc were in school. And you can be a bit creative to minimise the damage ie both work 4 long days so you only need 3 days of paid childcare.

OP, you should have told him he is a condescending jerk. It is not a choice only if you have grandparents around who are willing to do it.
He has a wife, you don't. He doesn't get it because he wasn't the one having to work evenings

Is working part time an option for you?

It is a choice. Surely one of the first things you decide is whether you can afford children and who is going to look after them?

Sorry that you're having to make the difficult choice between comfortable money and children.

I think nursery fees should be subsidized by the government to allow families to work when there's no other childcare options.

Yes, your salary would be cut by half. But this will only be for a very short time. After they turn 3, you get 30 hours free :)

OP I think you’re being misunderstood. Yes you’re obviously right that when you have children the family income will inevitably drop, either due to childcare costs or one parent stopping work/reducing their hours.

Except in cases where family will do childcare or if one parent wasn’t working anyway.

It is a choice. I stayed at home when my children were young but we made the decision as a family unit. During their childhood, I did a second degree and re-trained and when I returned to the workplace I had many more options than when I left it.

My being at home also allowed my OH to have a high flying career with support at home from me. It worked well for both of us.

And it depends on what you do as to if it wipes out an entire wage. A good graduate salary, into the 30k plus bracket, maybe only half of that is wiped out and you don't also lose career progression, pension etc.
I don't think the solution is to provide even more 'free' childcare.. Why should my deliberately child free sister pay tax to fund my kids' childcare? I'm 100% on board with society as a whole funding health, education, benefits etc, all the necessary things but having children or not is a deliberate choice and absolutely should be costed up first. The funded provision that is already there is great, and a big help but I don't think, especially at the moment, the gov should be asked to cover more, which is the only other option to the original question of work vs childcare.