To say childcare costs are not a 'choice'

[Sabrina124]

I was speaking to a friend of mine, and we were discussing children and the costs of children today. I said the main concern for me is the costs of childcare as it would wipe out half our joint income one way or another. He said that childcare is a 'choice' and it is better for children to be looked after by their parents. His children were looked after by grandma and his wife worked evening jobs to look after theirs.

Ugh. Even if one of us gave up work, it would still obviously wipe out half the income. Which was my point. We don't have grandparents who could help. And my career is not something I can do in the evenings (nor is my husband's). So I don't think there would be much of a 'choice' in childcare costs? My point is the childcare would wipe out half our income whether one of us gave up work or they were in a nursery.

Sorry, just needed to vent as I find it so frustrating. The cost of childcare is the main thing stopping us from having a child and it's quite upsetting tbh.

So your friend's wife worked evenings instead? If we assume working evenings only that's probably not a full time job , so if she left full time work to do that then they made a choice to lose some income, which is effectively financially the same as choosing to pay for childcare instead, you are left with less money both ways unless it was really well paid. So he's missed a point about the cost/income loss there. He also doesn't know how lucky he is that his wife was willing to do that. Sounds like his life didn't change that much when he had children so it's easy for him to make such comments.
If you think of the wider picture though a woman or a man with a decent career who totally drops out of the workplace for a few years to look after small children will lose more than what they didn't earn over those years . Over the course of their lifetime their earnings potential could be negatively affected I.e. they will miss promotions or may have to re enter the workplace at a more junior level, I think this does happen. If you compared the lost earnings potential to putting a child in nursery full time it may even itself out. I'm not saying that's a decision I would or anyone would make but if you think about it in purely financial terms that could be the outcome. There is an income disparity between the sexes for a reason.
OP you should look into the types of help you can get with childcare before you decide, such as tax free childcare, 15 or 30 hours funding when they turn 3. As long as you have some disposable income and not already living hand to mouth, you will find a way to manage the cost, we have.

I used to get this thrown at me too if I mentioned I couldn't afford things or dared to lament the cost of childcare - that it was my choice to work even though I'm the Main earner and earn 3x DH. I ignore the comments. My choice to have children, my choice to marry someone who would always earn less than me therefore meaning I could never be a STAHM etc. I don't feel guilty about or regret my choices in life

The comments work both ways. I worked evenings and weekends until coronavirus our DC have extra needs DP worked days we never saw each other the amount of comments people made thinking we're lucky and they're so hard done by paying for childcare especially during the summer holidays when of course as I was here in the day anyway I could take theres.
No one took mine when I climbed into bed at 5am to be up for 8am nor did I begrudge their evening as a family.

These types seem to cope just fine with my ‘choice’ to continue in my profession when they turn up to my hospital with their critically ill child and expect me to save them.

They tend to be rather self-absorbed and lacking in insight.

I think having a child is a choice yes. And in making that choice you choose to have the responsibilities that come with being a parent, both emotionally and financially. So yes it’s a choice

However I part ways with him that kids shouldn’t go to child care and are better with family. Arguably the professionals are a shit ton better than many parents.

OP isn’t saying having children isn’t a choice, she’s saying childcare isn’t a choice. Big difference.

No there isn't. It's pretty obvious that children need caring for so if you choose a child you are choosing to either lose a wage by staying at home or lose part or all of a wage on childcare, assuming you don't have other options like family or flexible working. It is a choice, just made at an earlier stage than many realise.

@Sabrina124
I think I should have rephrased my question to 'to think that loss of income if you have children is not a choice'

It' the same of buying a house then complaining you have to pay a mortgauge and you have no money left .

Yes it is a choice and one that you have to make as a family. We dropped down to one income so we could have a SAHP, the initial plan was paid childcare/family help but after a couple of months we felt the burden was too much for my parents (2 days a week) so we made the choice to drop one one wage. We knew when we had our DD we would need to take a drastic cut in income until she was at school and, now we are planning a second, we have assessed what this means financially. The other option for us would have been both parents working part time but this wasn’t really an option in our respective careers.

I think having a child is a choice yes. And in making that choice you choose to have the responsibilities that come with being a parent, both emotionally and financially. So yes it’s a choice

This. You knew you would need childcare when you made the decision to have a child.

Most things are a choice. I could choose to put my child in residential care so I could work. I don't think there is much point in many 'choice' arguments.

OP isn’t saying having children isn’t a choice, she’s saying childcare isn’t a choice. Big difference But it is a choice many families chose for one parent to stay at home it may not be the best choice financially and leads to cutbacks it is their choice, some families work shifts, some use FT day care, some employ a nanny it is all a choice based on the best thing for individual circumstances.
Everything we do is a choice.

I've been getting ads from dubious looking organizations on Facebook pleading poverty for families who have 11 children and whose dad can only work part-time because he has to go to religious school and the mum can't work because some of her children have special needs. Meanwhile they show them praying in front of some pretty fancy silverware and the Mum crying in front of a large collection of expensive looking books.

Kids are a choice! If you can't fund them and refuse to work why would you have so many!

Of course it's a choice to use childcare, I gave up work and did wfh/evening work around the children for 8 years then pt do my kids didn't have to go into childcare. We lived on a low income, bought everything second hand, one shared payg basic phone) one old car, rented a tiny place etc - yes a choice.

Parenthood is a choice, I didn't have mine to be looked after by strangers

@EmeraldShamrock

OP isn’t saying having children isn’t a choice, she’s saying childcare isn’t a choice. Big difference But it is a choice many families chose for one parent to stay at home it may not be the best choice financially and leads to cutbacks it is their choice, some families work shifts, some use FT day care, some employ a nanny it is all a choice based on the best thing for individual circumstances. Everything we do is a choice.

But whoever provides the care - mum, dad, nursery, DGPs - it's not a choice, it's a necessity. This man is very privileged with women facilitating childcare for him.

It is a choice. If you can afford it you do it.

So if you can't afford it you leave your baby alone in the house?

My first thought was:

How dare he make grand proclamations when he has made no sacrifices to his lifestyle at all?

I guess it’s a choice most people make to take a dip in income when they have a baby, knowing they’ll reap the rewards of a relationship with their child later on.

@Sabrina124

The question is not if having children is a choice, it is whether the cost of childcare is a choice if you have them. This man was trying to say it's a 'choice' to spend money on childcare as parents should look after them themselves. I say either way, the loss of income is not a choice.

Of course it's a choice!

As a parent, you chose to have children. So you need to decide how to meet those costs and responsibilities - whether that's through paying for childcare, temporarily giving up work, being fortunate enough to have an arrangement with family, or working shifts around each other to minimise nursery fees.

It sounds like you're just envious of his situation tbh.

Why worry what a wanker has to say? He chose not to pay for childcare, so the women around him had no choice in altering their lives, while his remained unchanged. Why is his opinion important to you?

He’s an ignorant sexist pig and I’d stop being friends with him.

Don’t let childcare costs put you off if you do want a DC. We have one, he goes to nursery 4 days a week while DH and I both work. I’m off with him on Friday’s. 15 free hours kick in age 3 and 30 free hours age 2 if you’re from a low income family. Childminders are cheaper than nursery- do look in to it before you rule out having children.

The question is not if having children is a choice, it is whether the cost of childcare is a choice if you have them. This man was trying to say it's a 'choice' to spend money on childcare as parents should look after them themselves. I say either way, the loss of income is not a choice.

I agree with what you are saying, the loss of income is there regardless of whether you have paid childcare or lose some/all of your income.

And you are right, that's no choice at all. But it's a consequence of choosing to have a child in the first place.

It took me 15yrs of ttc to eventually fall pregnant so we had a lot of time to discuss the options. DH would have happily given up his job to sahp or a part time option but since he earned double what I did that would have been an even greater loss of income, and, tbh, I wanted to stay home anyway. Eventually we settled on me working evenings for a while and then wfh permanently, whilst he took a slightly lower paid job which allowed him greater flexibility. We still took a hit on dropping income but not as much as one of us giving up work or working part time.

Your friend clearly needs a lesson in finances if he thinks losing income isn't a direct cost of having children.

But this friend is using childcare - grandma. It's just unpaid childcare.

A lot of people would use "grandma" as childcare if it was an option. Not the same as parents looking after their own children.