To thinking asking mothers educational level at booking appointment is shaming

[Ivybutterfly]

At my midwife booking appointment I was asked what age I left full time education. I remember the same question last time. They ask whether you have a degree or not. I found it rude and inappropriate. It is also irrelevant. I just sucked it up. My DH on the other hand was raging. He said it was shaming and disgusting. I agree. I think I am going to complain. Why so they ask such a rude question which has no relevance to pregnancy?

So are you all saying that because a woman has a degree it's assumed that she will be a better parent?

Because I do find that offensive.

@Tenyearsgone

It's probably so they can give you some info about joining the NCT. You might not be the right sort.

😂😂😂😂

They want to know how likely you are to need extra support with your baby. Will you be able to look after yourself in pregnancy? Will you be able to look after them? Can you read and write?

They probably should ask about fathers too, not just mothers, but studies show that a mother's level of education plays a much bigger role in how well her dc achieve than the father's level of education. Go figure.

I don't think it's shaming.

This is a ridiculous thing to get upset about. How do you think information is gathered about good practice in child care ? As previous posters have mentioned, the Mother’s education does have baring on good outcomes.

@Ivybutterfly

I worry for some poor working class mother who goes there alone and is made to feel worthless. I also find it condescending. People just assume that if you don’t have a degree you won’t breastfeed and will smoke and drink? That is shameful classism.

And that's not condescending? Some poor working-class mother...hmm.

I dont think you are being unreasonable to mind, but as people are saying, this was probably done with the most high minded of intentions to audit the service or something.

However there are various other issues here

• how did it make you feel? if it was disempowering as a process,then they should be rethinking that process

• how much information were they garnering from you? because there is a data protection issue here too as well .

• how did they explain it? which is key. If they are getting too much information to explain the process, again they might need to rethink the effect on patient experience.

• did you have the chance to feed back your dissatisfaction (because I think you should have done)

• do you have a named midwife you can talk to? as it might be helpful to you to talk this over. She could answer your questions on this point and, also very importantly, help build your confidence and trust in the service .Hopefully.

I thought it was for statistics, the same way they collect your age and race for many things. No judgment about it at all.

I had my DD this summer and was never asked about my education. However if I was, I wouldn't find it shameful. I also have a degree. I also think it's a little unfair to assume that because someone is working class they are not educated OP. The only time I felt judged was when DD was born, she happened to be a low birthweight (but long so it wasn't picked up in scans) and I had Dr's and Nurses ask me repeatedly if I smoked and wouldn't take 'No' for what is was!

@Ivybutterfly

I worry for some poor working class mother who goes there alone and is made to feel worthless. I also find it condescending. People just assume that if you don’t have a degree you won’t breastfeed and will smoke and drink? That is shameful classism.

No it's not 'shameful classism' .. just because it's unpalatable doesn't make it any the less true..

Just go on Google scholar and have a read of the very many studies of smoking, pregnancy, socio economic /educational attainment..

VERY crudely in every study someone from a poorer background, with lower educational attainment is statistically more likely to either continue smoking during pregnancy or to start again soon after birth. The questions are asked for a reason. It doesn't mean you have to answer them.

As people with degrees I am surprised you couldn't have googled that yourselves. !

@Ivybutterfly - Asking a intrusive question about someone’s class will cause distress to some people.

It's not about class. It's about level of education. God, today the highest ever proportion of school leavers go on to take a degree! University is no longer the province of a few posh boys.

Also, your prejudice is doing. Why would 'working class women' not be educated to degree level??

Why didn't you educate yourself on why they ask before coming on here sounding like a professional complainer.

PPs have told you the reason they ask.

Nothing to do with your husband. Do you wind each other up into a frenzy every time you're unnecessarily offended?

It’s really sad that people are offended by so much these days and literally everything.

Showing, not doing!

You only prove that it's possible to be offended by anything these days.

You are being ridiculous and completely over-reacting. If your DH is "raging" now, good luck for the future

The reasons are all the above already stated.

I worry for some poor working class mother

You do know that some poor working class mothers have degrees too?

Statistically it does matter. Mother’s education is the most significant factor in children’s success I later life. However you are under no obligation to answer even if they are ‘firm’.

@Tenyearsgone

So are you all saying that because a woman has a degree it's assumed that she will be a better parent?

Because I do find that offensive.

Nope! But that is the interpretation that some will insist is correct!

Statistics - they work on a large cohort basis, not an individual one. So the question has 2 uses:

1. To gather data to inform future health research, planning and provision

1. To offer the individual tailored support.

That particular question best fits category 1.

I wouldn't answer, not if it meant being judged from the start.

2. To offer the individual tailored support

So a woman without a degree is assumed to need extra support?

@Tenyearsgone

So are you all saying that because a woman has a degree it's assumed that she will be a better parent?

Because I do find that offensive.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too, and that is condescending.

how much information were they garnering from you? because there is a data protection issue here too as well . I can answer that one!

Most of the questions will be an EU initiative, with EU funding, match funding etc. The data has been collected for decades, went though all sorts of ethical approval and is anonymised as appropriate! Once it is passed forward the surgery, midwfe etc won't hod that data, or have access to the bits that are not relevant to them! They literally fill in the screen, press save and it disappears into the central database!

@Tenyearsgone

2. To offer the individual tailored support

So a woman without a degree is assumed to need extra support?

Erm... last sentence in that post!

Beautifully explained @BogRollBOGOF

OP your further posts make you sound like the one doing the shaming...
poor working class mother - really???.

When I was pregnant, one of the forms asked if I consented to 'health screening'. I asked what it meant and it covered being seen by a health visitor - and maybe questions like this too. You may have ticked that box (or if it was an opt out box, not ticked it). GDPR GD

They aren’t targeting individuals and judging/ shaming their parenting. It’s for statistical purposes, for which you need many individual responses.
I think you have overreacted and might want to look at why you feel like that.
I’m more concerned that they ask so little about fathers and partners as if the birthing mother is the only parent but hey.