To thinking asking mothers educational level at booking appointment is shaming

[Ivybutterfly]

At my midwife booking appointment I was asked what age I left full time education. I remember the same question last time. They ask whether you have a degree or not. I found it rude and inappropriate. It is also irrelevant. I just sucked it up. My DH on the other hand was raging. He said it was shaming and disgusting. I agree. I think I am going to complain. Why so they ask such a rude question which has no relevance to pregnancy?

@peggyporchen

"I have a PHD and my DD was born at 31 weeks and weighed a grand total of 2lbs!"

you have a PHD and you can't understand the difference between an average risk and your specific experience? 

This! Academic here banging head against wall. It's nothing to do with Betty up the road having no degree and 3 kids all doing great. Unless we do research into these things how will we ever fund/support needed services? There are also some studies suggesting links between ADHD and pre term births but that doesn't mean all premies get ADHD.

Fwiw I'm a single parent so was asked questions about that during pregnancy as obviously this is a risk factor. Wasn't offended in the slightest. I'm glad research is conducted to give support to those who need it.

@NiceGerbil

Did they ask about the dad as well, seeing as he was there?

This.

Oh for god’s sake. If your child has asthma or was born preterm at an INDIVIDUAL level it may have nothing to do with your degree and qualifications.
My kids were pre term and have asthma. I have a PhD.

I have enough research knowledge to know that this APPLIES AT A POPULATION LEVEL.

All of you saying ‘but it didn’t apply to me, stop. Please stop. It’s about aggregate statistics at a population level.

Deep breath!

@Hopeisnotastrategy No because as has been pointed out, it's not relevant to childhood outcomes unlike maternal education level

@ktp100

Whether you like it or not your child's predicted grades/educational attainment will have been predicted before they start school and that will be based on the education level of you & DH plus post code mainly.

They do it for all kids and although it could be argued it's stupid it's statistically sound enough for general use.

Of course it changes over time with teacher input & testing but it helps to start with a benchmark.

So those kids are marked out as failures from the start? No wonder there's such a big divide.

And no they don’t ask about the dad because the links are not that clear. Just do a Pub Med search.
Also look up the links between the social determinants of health and maternal education.

I agree with you OP, haven't read the responses. I was tempted to say I had a degree in case they expected less of me, or less of my child. But then I thought no, this bi-lingual, non-smoking, breastfeeding ignoramus :-p will just have to even things up in the ''uneducated'' camp.

I understand that if you look at a group of educated mothers then there will be greater tendencies to certain things but it's never an individual prophecy!

Hi.

Maternal educational attainment is correlated to numerous outcomes for infant and child. In numerous disciplines: piles of evidence.

I was asked if my second baby had the same father as my first and whether I was an intravenous drug user!

@Tenyearsgone But without identifying those kids, how can anyone help to change it?

I never ate so healthily as when I was unemployed (and had time to chop up onions, carrots, peppers, mushrooms etc) things aren't a clear cut as they think.

I wasn't asked this when I had my DC, youngest is 9 so maybe things have changed. As someone who is studying a master's in CYS, yes I can see why it is relevant, to an extent, however I'm not sure I would put it on a form, it is intrusive. If they wanted to check if a mother was literate, in order to be able to access healthcare information, they could maybe find a discreet way of asking, such as 'do you require any assistance with....' etc. Perhaps if there was a disclaimer explaining why they are collecting that information, then the service user is more informed and they can decide whether to disclose or not.

@MsTSwift

I was asked if my second baby had the same father as my first and whether I was an intravenous drug user!

Wow.

@Tenyearsgone exactly!

Midwife here.

It sadly does have a bearing on pregnancy as research shows that those with lower academic achievement have worse pregnancy outcomes.

These questions are asked to inform future research and help the service adjust to prevent these inequalities.

You are always free to decline any question you do not wish to answer however.

I wonder if there is a maternal and baby health correlation not really directly because of the educational level, but because an effect of low educational attainment can be that you are more likely to have a low income. Which can mean cramped or poor quality accommodation, worse diet, stress, poorer health in general. So should questions actually be asked about living conditions etc?

I find it so peculiar that people don’t understand the differences between POPULATION level corelations and policies and INDIVIDUAL circumstances. It’s fairly simple to understand that both of the following can be true -

1. Overwhelmingly clear evidence at population level that cows usually turn orange if they eat biscuits.

AND

1. Emily’s family cow ate a biscuit once and didn’t turn orange.

Point 2 does not in any way negate Point 1.

I now see a PP has made this exact point - well put!

@ChaBishkoot

Oh for god’s sake. If your child has asthma or was born preterm at an INDIVIDUAL level it may have nothing to do with your degree and qualifications. My kids were pre term and have asthma. I have a PhD.

I have enough research knowledge to know that this APPLIES AT A POPULATION LEVEL.

All of you saying ‘but it didn’t apply to me, stop. Please stop. It’s about aggregate statistics at a population level.

Deep breath!

We can fully get this and still feel shamed.

I got it, felt shamed, and felt obliged to fly the flag for 'the uneducated'.

Not really how I see myself but I was forced in to that camp!

Well I was forced into replying. I made it obvious I did not want to @Madwife123 People should care more about people’s privacy.

[quote mynameiscalypso]@Tenyearsgone But without identifying those kids, how can anyone help to change it?[/quote]
By not having those kids down as failures seemingly from before they are even born,

Why is it relevant what educational level a mother has? They don’t ask if you go in for other kinds of treatments.

Because other treatments don’t result in you having to look after a tiny human when the period of treatment comes to an end.

I find it offensive OP, it is a long time since I had my DC but I have been asked these questions in other situations.

When I left school (state girls’ grammar) the only girls that went to uni were those that became doctors or dentists, university wasn’t required for many respectable careers.

DH doesn’t have a single O’Level and is now on the board of a great company on a fantastic salary. The school he went to was a dump and he grew up in social housing. Who cares what your educational level is and why do they need stats on it?

Same thing for religion, I always “prefer not to say’.

Incidentally, I never went to university, DH has no qualifications and my DC were eight pounders.

I was asked if my second baby had the same father as my first and whether I was an intravenous drug user!

Why the exclamation mark? Do you think these questions are not relevant to mother and baby’s welfare? Don’t you understand how dangerous it is for healthcare professionals to assume they know the answer to questions based on someone’s appearance or the way they speak?

There's an irony in asking about a woman's educational achievements in relation to pregnancy and birth a time when the NHS and countless other areas are busy removing the category of woman from data collection, not to mention all the words and phrases relating to our bodies that are now allegedly unacceptable.

@Tenyearsgone I understand what you mean but, practically, how does that help? How does it get the mother access to a dedicated and specialist midwife (as happens in my Trust)? How does it help local authorities get funding for drop in centres?