To be shocked Ariana Grande is White

[IslandGyal]

I’ve just discovered the new trend of ‘blackfishing’ whereby white celebrities and models try and appear racially ambiguous.

I think it’s more common in the states. However one of the most common examples is Ariana Grande who seems to have almost changed races.

See the picture in this article: medium.com/@abbs664/ariana-grande-blackfishing-d42a8cb726ea

Is anyone else kinda shocked that Grande is a white Italian.

I always assumed she was Latin American or mixed race black. It’s also quite problematic that she appears to tone down her look when it suits by appearing lighter on vogue.

Aibu

@user1471565182

Right it really doesnt matter how many people from Med countries posters know, we're quite clearly talking about an effort to appear to have sub saharan black ancestry.

For me, at least, I'm not convinced that's what Ariana Grande is doing. She talks a LOT about being Italian American, and she became famous on a show where she looked very white with dyed red hair. I'm struggling to see her style as a deliberate attempt to look more black rather than her evolving style being influenced by black culture.

The evidence presented has been photoshopped photos (not convincing), a clip that claims her speech has become more 'black' (I and others can't hear any such thing despite looking/listening) and a video in which she talks about weave (which she is very open about wearing because the Disney show dye ruined her natural hair).

Blackfishing is a worthy subject to talk about but Ariana Grande just doesn't seem like the best example.

I never understand why POC members try to discuss these types of issues on here. 99% the time it goes exactly as it has done on this thread. Like clock-work, alas here we are again
You do know POC are amongst the posters answering the OP? It's racist to assume that because the OP is a POC then all POC must agree with her self-admitted uninformed opinion (since she only became aware of the issue from a poorly researched Medium article and she judges people's race on edited photos). OP didn't ask if blackfishing was an issue. She asked posters if she should be shocked that Ariana isn't black. But I'm guessing you read that and just chose to misrepresent it.

I assume the Roman Empire has something to do with that. I was listening to a programme a little this recently and they didn’t have the same thoughts on race as we do now. Of course they through the ancient brits were rough as badgers bums and the Celts were untameable hooligans...

Of course people round the med have always mixed. The Moors in Spain for example.

I don't know why people need to classify other people, my DD is British, born and brought up here, her mixed background can't be that significant because people can't even work out what it is.

I agree blackfishing is problematic. But in Ariana's case, she has dark eyes, skin and hair- Mediterranean. That's her natural colouring and she goes darker when in the sun or wearing fake tan thanks to her melanin levels. I've never thought she was black.
I'd see what you mean if she were a Celtic Brit like me, with pale skin, pink undertones, blue eyes, red hair. But she isn't.

oh they're all speaking in AAVE in sicily and Crete now are they?

Sometimes I think these issues arise because people haven't travelled or don't have different races in their own family. Only someone who was very sheltered would assume someone's race on something as superficial as a photo.

Who cares??!

So she slaps on fake tan. So what?

Whinge about something important, OP.

Here’s a previous reverse sort of thread on this. Lots of posters on here understand what you mean OP

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3965766-Sons-girlfriend-thinks-suntans-are-racist

Its not just that photshopped photo is it, these accusastions have been around for years.

oh they're all speaking in AAVE in sicily and Crete now are they? She is American, she may have her ancestors genes that give her olive skin and dark hair but they didn't pass down their Sicilian accents.

There will always be men trying to tell women what to wear, how to speak, etc. And there will always be some women trying to garner favour by siding with the men.
Look at all the threads on here calling out men for the same issue! Oh, that's right. There aren't any.

While I agree that 'blackfishing' is problematic I don't think AG is a good example of it.

Yep everyone wants to look Black but no one wants the Black experience

@Tenyearsgone

While I agree that 'blackfishing' is problematic I don't think AG is a good example of it.

As a POC...this.

Ooh! My brain paraphrased that and came up with the FWR version

Everyone wants to be a woman...

I suspect you have a valid point!

@shamalidacdak

Yep everyone wants to look Black but no one wants the Black experience

Yeah, that's what it boils down to. I can see why it's irritating to see people cherry picking the desirable 'black' features while having none of the shite that goes with it.

@Stripesnomore

Splitting people into black and white doesn’t really work.

Why should people from the Mediterranean, where there are people of every skin tone and where descent was mixed in the past, be split into black or white, while people from Latin America are all called POC?

It is all very USA centric. I have Sicilian and Iranian family members. You would struggle to work out which ethnicity each has from photos, so don’t bother trying.

And an untanned skin is not more natural than a tanned one. Sunblock is no more natural than fake tan. They both alter your tone to one that wouldn’t exist if you were living a natural life out in the sun.

All this trying to push people into boxes is making society more and more racist. It is like a return of 19th century racism. You will be getting out callipers and measuring people’s heads next.

This is the point of white supremacy though. It assigns status based on a perception of race, sometimes quite arbitrarily. A Sicilian and an Iranian might well look very alike, but the former has been granted whiteness while the latter has not. As such a Sicilian is situated higher on the racial hierarchy and will not face racism in the way an Iranian may well, once both heritages are known.

I have only read the OP, checked the link (I knew what it would be though!), and read a few more recent replies, not the full thread.

Ariana is naturally tanned because she has italian heritage (which she speaks about a lot), but that photo is photoshopped to make her look even darker - that wasn't done by her. See here for the real picture
www.gotceleb.com/ariana-grande-2016-american-music-awards-in-los-angeles-2016-11-20.html

This is her most recent photo shoot static.billboard.com/files/2020/10/01-Ariana-Grande-press-photo-2020-cr-Dave-Meyers-billboard-1548-1603458796-compressed.jpg

Here she is as a child
starcasm.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Young-Ariana-Grande-Childhood.jpg

You can clearly see that she has the same tone here. She even spoke out about being forced to wear makeup (whilst on Nickelodeon) that was 3x too light for her. People will continue to argue that she has blackfished based on one photo 4 years ago no matter what. You aren't wrong about blackfishing in celebs, as you said you aren't imagining it, but I agree with PPs that Ariana isn't a good example.

@Tenyearsgone

While I agree that 'blackfishing' is problematic I don't think AG is a good example of it.

Yes I'm not sure she is trying to look black, more Middle Eastern or Latina. Probably Latina. She is still appropriating from POC though.

@user1471565182

Right it really doesnt matter how many people from Med countries posters know, we're quite clearly talking about an effort to appear to have sub saharan black ancestry.

But surely being from black ancestry is much more than just skin colour?

I mean I know a certain celebrity has been told that she was balckfisting after having some surgery to have large hips.
On thé other side. I’ve been told by a black woman i was beautiful because of my wide hips (I’m basically overweight and carry the weight on my hips Lol) and she didn’t see that as a way to appear ‘black’.

So appearing to be of black ancestry isn’t just about wide hips or braids or skin colour. There is a clear will for people to APPEAR to be something they are not. It’s a range of things rather than one single thing.

For me, going to get some sun tan to a salon (fake or not) should be ok and no one should be made to feel uncomfortable about that. I mean if there is one thing you can’t change it’s your skin colour.
If someone is using filters to make them look darker than it’s an entirely different story. (Or if they have specific surgery etc etc)

The issue and what a lot of people are arguing in this thread is that the fact AG can come out as having very dark skin is likely to be because of her skin rather than filters/wanting to look a certain way. And that’s why her ancestry is important.

OP, don't even bother trying to bring these issues to AIBU. Because YANBU. She has darkened her tone considerably.

Imo, Ariana is one of many Caucasian girls chasing the 'mixed/biracial/exotic' aesthetic. There are more obvious examples out there than Ariana imo. Ariana does not wants to look like Kerry Washington, but she wants to look more racially ambiguous than she would normally present. She's following a trend and the damage is only felt in one corner of society, that many do not see or want to see.

The fact she's got Italian heritage doesn't mean she isn't trying to achieve and benefit from a certain 'look' that isn't natural for her. To some, it's just a tan, so what can be said to reason with them? Not much. But imo she's harmless compared to others (like the Kardashians with benefits they have enjoyed due to the lip injections, skin darkening and butt implants etc).

Fwiw i think that saying only black women are ‘allowed’ to have dark skin is an issue. Or having to look in details at someone ancestry to decide if they can do or B.
We are living In societies that are more and multi cultural but more importantly where races are mixed. I’m very uncomfortable with someone deciding if one person is part if one group or the other just in the colour of their skin. They should be allowed to say they are white/black/asian/whatever or maybe all of that at the same time - because some people ARE all of that.

These women are white and presenting themselves as BAME. It’s not something I’m imagining.

How? Having just googled her (I had no clue) she is very clearly white with olive skin. Very few photos have much tan on at all.

She has an Italian name and several interviews crop up referencing her Italian heritage.

I don't think you made blackfishing up but I do think it's a bit of a mad concept.

Can we not pretend that Ariana Grande couldn't pass for mixed race, which in the American black world at least means black.

I don't think it's her fault that lot's of Americans are racists.