To be shocked Ariana Grande is White

[IslandGyal]

I’ve just discovered the new trend of ‘blackfishing’ whereby white celebrities and models try and appear racially ambiguous.

I think it’s more common in the states. However one of the most common examples is Ariana Grande who seems to have almost changed races.

See the picture in this article: medium.com/@abbs664/ariana-grande-blackfishing-d42a8cb726ea

Is anyone else kinda shocked that Grande is a white Italian.

I always assumed she was Latin American or mixed race black. It’s also quite problematic that she appears to tone down her look when it suits by appearing lighter on vogue.

Aibu

She’s definitely white in Sam and Cat (which my dc watch continually). Maybe you shouldn’t assume

@Mrsjayy

She is Italian with fake tan on I don't think she presented herself as anything other than that? Lots of people from Mediterranean backgrounds have olive/sallow skin

Exactly. My husband is a darker than average Greek and a lot of people think he's Asian. I don't think Ariana Grande is pretending to be anything other than herself

Both the photos in the article are edited btw...

That’s a victorious shot - so from about the same time as she only has red hair for that show and this year...

So yeah, there’s fake tan... but it is only a few shades darker

She wasn’t even that pale as a child. The teenage picture was from when she was in 13 in New York (so spending a lot of time on the less sunny East Coast in darkened theatres for 8 shows a week rarely seeing the light of day). She clearly had olive skin in childhood and is not far off her non photoshopped adult photos.

It’s quite dramatic and I’m assuming it’s not a natural as celebrities would not damage their skin like that by tanning outside or on a sunbed

Honestly I don’t think celebs care weather they damage their skin or their face it’s all about an image.

But FAKE TAN OUT OF A BOTTLE.

Do you think Donald trump is naturally that shade of orange!

@ancientgran

It's problematic that people are desperate to work out who is black and who isn't and get upset when they get it wrong. My DD gets this, "where are you from?" She never discusses her background if people ask this, she will if it is in context with something she is discussing so it isn't that she is denying her background she just hates the assumption that she is from somewhere else, her skin doesn't designate that.

She been mistaken for Spanish, Italian, Moroccan, Indian, Pakistani, Egyptian among others. She is a chameleon I think. Although she hates the "where are you from" she finds the speculation quite funny, particularly if she is abroad and people assume she is local and chat to her in their language.

I get the same. I am of half South Asian and half Northern European background. I've definitely had people asking where I am from with the motivation of needing to be sure I wouldn't count as white before they commence their racist remarks.

Splitting people into black and white doesn’t really work.

Why should people from the Mediterranean, where there are people of every skin tone and where descent was mixed in the past, be split into black or white, while people from Latin America are all called POC?

It is all very USA centric. I have Sicilian and Iranian family members. You would struggle to work out which ethnicity each has from photos, so don’t bother trying.

And an untanned skin is not more natural than a tanned one. Sunblock is no more natural than fake tan. They both alter your tone to one that wouldn’t exist if you were living a natural life out in the sun.

All this trying to push people into boxes is making society more and more racist. It is like a return of 19th century racism. You will be getting out callipers and measuring people’s heads next.

This is just an attempt to whip up hatred against a successful young woman. That photo is fake and her voice doesn't change at all.

It's shitty behaviour.

I never thought Ariana was black because I used to watch her on nickoledeon. I assumed olive skinned but white heritage like Greek etc. She does look very dark in the pictures shared upthread so I could understand why people might assume her to be mixed race or Latina.

I've seen white girls in Liverpool get accused of blackfishing when really they're just following popular culture and going overboard with the tan. I think the real issue is the sexualisation of women and racist fetishization of "the exotic" but I don't think girls/young women who try to look the way society tells them are to blame, nor do I think they are "blackfishing" - exceptions being Rachel Dolezal and similar.

I haven’t seen a photo of Ariana in years. I am more surprised at how dark she is now.

I had assumed she was white, with maybe some Mediterranean type influence. If I have thought about her at all.

OP - are you new on here? It’s absolutely impossible to have any sort of discussion about this sort of thing on here. I’m not in the least bit surprised at the way this thread has gone. People will deny, deny, deny the issue rather than have a discussion about it.

P.S. who came up with ‘blackfishing’ for this phenomenon...?

@IslandGyal It's rather bemusing to see a sea of posts along the lines of "I am a quarter Italian, my husband is Greek one of our children is pale the other is very dark" or "FFS! Are white people not allowed to tan anymore!" or some variation of non-sense dedicated to missing the entire point. Oh well.

[quote IslandGyal]@LindaEllen

It matters because I as a black women may want to support another black womens product.

Say I buy clothes designed from an Instagram influencer who is pretending to be black buy using heavy fake tan and hairstyles who is actually white this deprives me of the right to support a real black designer.[/quote]
If you wish to make economic decisions based on someone's ethnicity, it is up to you do do your research properly, not for them to 'prove' what they are/are not, to you.

Not having looked at pictures of her recently I has to click your link to see what you were talking about . I remember her on a Nickelodeon show around 10 years ago and she was pale with reddish colour hair then (as in the before picture on your link ). I've seen her performing on TV at times and I hasn't thought she looked particularly dark skinned then .

@MerchantOfVenom I suspect so - I never understand why POC members try to discuss these types of issues on here. 99% the time it goes exactly as it has done on this thread. Like clock-work, alas here we are again.

[quote Faultymain5]**@IslandGyal* She should not be the same shade as Nicki Minaj who is black*

The only thing I have a problem with here is my 2nd (or possibly 3rd) cousin, looks like Shirley Temple, only cuter. Her Grandmother is the shade of Wesley Snipes and her mother is the shade of Nicki Minaj.

I do think it's a bit weird we had a thread a week or so ago about someone trying to 'pass' then another thread this week about someone possibly 'blackfishing'.

My answer does not mean that I do not see 'blackfishing' as a problem of course it is.[/quote]
That makes a lot of sense to me.

I am surprised that so many people seemingly have never heard of blackfishing and can't see that this is a problem, in particular for black women. As a middle aged white Irish women living in NI I can see it and it makes me wonder why so many are blind to the issue.

Rita Ora is more problematic for me. She said in an interview a few years back that being mistaken for being black 'opened doors' for her. Horribly cynical way to present yourself.

I'd never heard of her until the Manchester bombing. When I saw her , I presumed she was from Latin America, and never thought about it again.

FFS i somehow quoted the wrong PP

I meant to quote this:

IslandGyal

<strong>*@LindaEllen</strong>*

"It matters because I as a black women may want to support another black womens product.

Say I buy clothes designed from an Instagram influencer who is pretending to be black buy using heavy fake tan and hairstyles who is actually white this deprives me of the right to support a real black designer."

Right it really doesnt matter how many people from Med countries posters know, we're quite clearly talking about an effort to appear to have sub saharan black ancestry.

It's up to her if she wants to cover herself in fake tan. Or is that not acceptable anymore 🙄 People have been doing it for year and years. I did in my younger day, until I realised fake tan looked shit.

I get you OP, and YANBU. She does look black in her photos above that you've linked to and I think it's an image she's played up to on purpose.

@MoreCookiesPlease

I get you OP, and YANBU. She does look black in her photos above that you've linked to and I think it's an image she's played up to on purpose.

Except the photo op linked to is photoshopped,

It matters because I as a black women may want to support another black womens product.

Make sure you find out more about their history then if you don't want to buy projects from non black people.

‘Right it really doesnt matter how many people from Med countries posters know, we're quite clearly talking about an effort to appear to have sub saharan black ancestry.’

Which many mediterranean people have, as people have always mixed with each other, particularly around the Mediterranean hub.

It never occurred to me that she was black- she just looks like a very fake-tanned white woman. Which of course she is.