To be shocked Ariana Grande is White

[IslandGyal]

I’ve just discovered the new trend of ‘blackfishing’ whereby white celebrities and models try and appear racially ambiguous.

I think it’s more common in the states. However one of the most common examples is Ariana Grande who seems to have almost changed races.

See the picture in this article: medium.com/@abbs664/ariana-grande-blackfishing-d42a8cb726ea

Is anyone else kinda shocked that Grande is a white Italian.

I always assumed she was Latin American or mixed race black. It’s also quite problematic that she appears to tone down her look when it suits by appearing lighter on vogue.

Aibu

@GreenlandTheMovie

OverTgeRainbow so when a white woman with naturally long blond hair and a voluptuous figure gets called a "Barbie Doll" and "dumb blonde" all her life, or "inbred" (all insults from people including black friends who seem to think its OK be ause its somehow "complimentary"), including at work, paid less than 2 male colleagues (one of whom is Asian) doing the same job with lower qualifications and passed over for promotion, she's benefitting from white priveleged us she? Even though she only has one British I aren't, which explains her looks (half Finnish)? Because thats what happens regularly to one of my friends.

That must be why so many famous black women in the public eye dye their hair blond or wear blond wigs then too. I don't think 8ve ever seen Beyonce with her natural hair colour, she seems to have been that attractive but completely unnatural shade of blonde for 2 decades, and to have built her career around that look. But she's not accused of anything, while other women who alter their appearance are literally micro-analysed for their racial heritage.

Don't really want to get into this argument either, but slavery affected northern European coastal areas very badly through the Barbary Pirates slave trade, so when they weren't being compulsorily thrown off their own land and deported, many rural White people were literally hiding in caves and running to the hills to avoid being kidnapped into slavery. And poor children in cities such as Liverpool and Aberdeen were rldeported and sold as slaves to the Americas, where the lucky ones worked off their indenture. There's just very poor record keeping. It's all absolutely disgusting, but white people were affected too.

Am I even allowed to point this out?

Erm you will always see people (in particular me) pointing out the problems with Beyonce. She's accused of many things. One of them is playing to a certain audience where I think John Barnes has put it as being "elevated out of Blackness" (you needed to hear the context of the conversation, but very illuminating viewpoint), very few black people can do this, but Bey's (and the like) success are held up as why the world isn't racist against Black people. I disliked her before because her 'act' came across as disingenuous (to me) but her whole Lemonade phase where she suddenly remembered she was black was extremely problematic to me. I'm not the only one saying it, so I think it's just who you mix with as to whether you hear about it.

As for mixing indentured servants with slaves. Do you know the difference? Do you know the difference between being a black slave and being an indentured servant? Do you understand that working off your "slavery" is not something that was able to be done by black people. You couldn't work it off, you couldn't run away and pretend you were never a slave. You could not hide behind your colour. So yes, any abuse, kidnapping was wrong (rubbish unsuitable word), however, the trauma of african slavery is now indelible in our psyche and written within our DNA. Working your way out of slavery I'm willing to believe (but open to opposition).

When someone says they didn't do it and they're not responsible and their ancestors didn't even own slaves, I totally understand why they feel that way, I do. No-one wants to feel that they have assisted in preserving the status quo.

But I'm going on and on (and could), so I'm going to give it rest.

I had absolutely no idea Bruno Mars wasn’t black . But that is his natural look, and he is surely as POC so does that count as blackfishing?

@Dinocan

I had absolutely no idea Bruno Mars wasn’t black . But that is his natural look, and he is surely as POC so does that count as blackfishing?

Hes Puerto Rican and Ashkenazi

@Faultymain5 See, while I agree with most of what you say, as far as Beyonce goes I don't think its particularly fair to describe her as being the problem. It is completely reasonable to discuss why she, with comparatively light skin and dyed blonde hair, was accepted so much into the mainstream as the "acceptable" face of blackness whilst artists with darker skin may not have achieved the same level of success even if they deserved it as much ir more. Its also fair to say that mainstream society's acceptance of some black people is fair from evidence that that society isnt racist. That isnt specifically Beyonce's fault though - she didnt invent racism or colourism or the patriarchy even if at times shes benefitted from those things in subtle ways. I completely accept that my opinion on this doesnt count as much as yours does. I just feel it can be counterproductive when people start describing individual women (assuming they havent done anything terrible) as being "problematic". Actually I would say as a general rule people are people, not problems.

This was her as a child. So yes she fake tans but really she doesn't look that different IMO. Most photos of her she doesn't even look as dark as the one linked.

I have seen a lot of Instagram influencers black fishing though.

She is a completely different shade to the one she was born with

So was Michael Jackson.

Most photos of her she doesn't even look as dark as the one linked.
Because the one linked was faked

[quote yetanothernamitynamechange]@Faultymain5 See, while I agree with most of what you say, as far as Beyonce goes I don't think its particularly fair to describe her as being the problem. It is completely reasonable to discuss why she, with comparatively light skin and dyed blonde hair, was accepted so much into the mainstream as the "acceptable" face of blackness whilst artists with darker skin may not have achieved the same level of success even if they deserved it as much ir more. Its also fair to say that mainstream society's acceptance of some black people is fair from evidence that that society isnt racist. That isnt specifically Beyonce's fault though - she didnt invent racism or colourism or the patriarchy even if at times shes benefitted from those things in subtle ways. I completely accept that my opinion on this doesnt count as much as yours does. I just feel it can be counterproductive when people start describing individual women (assuming they havent done anything terrible) as being "problematic". Actually I would say as a general rule people are people, not problems.[/quote]
She's not as light as she appears, that's one of the problems. She definitely benefitted/profited from those things as you say, but I recall when a magazine slimmed Kate Winslet down, she called them out on it. But when Beyonce's skin is lightened she says nothing as an example.

Maybe she just because conscious in time for the superbowl, but I (cynically) believe she was jumping on a bandwagon. This I find problematic.

Why wouldn't your opinion count? Everyone has an opinion and I want to listen to differing ones, it's the only way I'll learn.

Maybe she just became conscious

Blackfishing is real and it is a problem.

The writer of this article starts with : "Disclaimer: I am a white woman. Please correct me if anything I say is inaccurate, offensive, or misunderstood."

Underneath this disclaimer, the article leads with two photographs of Ariana Grande. The "after" photograph has been shown on this thread to have been photoshopped to darken the colour of her skin (The photograph was taken at the American Music Awards, if you want to google).

Rather than a discussion about blackfishing and its harmful effects, the discussion is now centred on the ethnic background of Ariana Grande.

@Dinocan

I had absolutely no idea Bruno Mars wasn’t black . But that is his natural look, and he is surely as POC so does that count as blackfishing?

I thought he was hawaiian, so I just assumed he was a person of colour.

Just to say I find this post really offensive and am actually thinking of reporting it. I'm mixed race black / white and absolutely do not see a problem with Ariana Grande. I take it as compliment if I'm honest. Blackfishing wtf??? How dare you posters assume she is 'taking the good parts' of being black when it suits. There is NO evidence of this, you are being fucking racist here.

@Faultymain5 I just meant that though I grew up in a very mixed environment and happen to have a diverse friendship group now, I am not black I am white and therefore whilst I might think racism is a bad thing it hasn't impacted me directly, so I am less likely to be hurt or affected by blackfishing. I would be annoyed for example if a man waded into a discussion around sexual harrasment with his own very important opinion on why it isnt that much of a problem.
I can see how Beyonce manipulating her appearance or allowing others to manipulate their appearance is an issue, but if we criticised all women who did that in order to gain some advantage we would be left with very very few "OK" women. I, for example, am a feminist but I still worried a lot when younger about being thin enough, looking pretty enough etc etc and I am not a celebrity who depends on that for her career. The fact that she has become more vocal recently might be a cynical move, it might be that she feels she is at a stage in her career where she is able to do that without suffering harm, it might even be that having daughters made her more political. I just don't think its helpful to blame her personally. I also heard a quote a long time ago that "the right tends to be more successful because it looks for converts while the left looks for traitors" which if anything feels more true now. I know this isnt a specifically left/right issue but I still think it applies.

Bruno Mars has Puerto Rican/Jewish heritage.

Sorry, thats his father, his mother has Philipino/Spanish heritage.

I also think that making these issues about individuals (usually women, men generally are much less likely to be criticised for wearing their hair in dreadlocks or clothes that originated from black culture) means that they are more likely to get bogged down in very odd, uncomfortable discussions about colour scales, lip size and large bums and who is allowed to have them and it all gets a bit wierd and backwards.

@slothtrot As is everyone that goes on a sun bed, wears fake tan or sun bathes. I’m incredibly pale and was bullied for it relentlessly growing up and still get comments now about it.

@onedayinthefuture

Just to say I find this post really offensive and am actually thinking of reporting it. I'm mixed race black / white and absolutely do not see a problem with Ariana Grande. I take it as compliment if I'm honest. Blackfishing wtf??? How dare you posters assume she is 'taking the good parts' of being black when it suits. There is NO evidence of this, you are being fucking racist here.

The article posted I believe mentions Ariana Grande. The original OP mentioned AG, I believe most people don't agree. Even if you don't believe Ariana Grande is blackfishing, that's fine.

If you are saying it's not a problem, well that's simply not true. Personally I'd prefer the conversation to not be about AG, as I've posted upthread I think she's perfectly fine. And even the OP has gone silent on the subject.

So as another PP has posted upthread the thread is has become about AG rather than about blackfishing.

I’m not shocked, but then I thought Adele was black grin (before I’d seen a picture of her, to be clear!)

I did too!
And I was certain Amy Winehouse was black ie before I saw a photo of her obv.

@yetanothernamitynamechange

I also think that making these issues about individuals (usually women, men generally are much less likely to be criticised for wearing their hair in dreadlocks or clothes that originated from black culture) means that they are more likely to get bogged down in very odd, uncomfortable discussions about colour scales, lip size and large bums and who is allowed to have them and it all gets a bit wierd and backwards.

I don't know how true that is about men being let off. As not too long ago, Justin Timberlake (who didn't tan, or maybe doesn't tan well, I don't know) got called out on his benefitting/profiting from black culture.

@yetanothernamitynamechange
See this is what I'm saying you have just given me food for thought re: Bey, so I might just let up on her (a little), because of YOUR opinion. So I understand what you are saying (I get it and understand), but it's really important that if we have something to say, we should feel safe and confident in what we are saying as we can all learn something. I'd rather than have the conversaation that pretend it's one worth having.

not worth having

I can’t believe so many people on mumsnet have never heard of black fishing, or are simply denying it exists.
It’s a really big deal, however the Ariana example has given them something else to disingenuously focus on, it’s a shame.

Yes, which is why I will be happy commenting in AIBU but wouldnt if this was posted in the black mumsnetters section (because I do think there are times when its useful to have a wider discussion but also theres nothing wrong with limiting discussions either)
And I didnt know about Justin Timberlake so maybe I am wrong there. I have been annoyed by a lot of things this week so might be seeing everything through a feminist lens.

The fact that she has become more vocal recently might be a cynical move, it might be that she feels she is at a stage in her career where she is able to do that without suffering harm, it might even be that having daughters made her more political. I just don't think its helpful to blame her personally.

I also heard a quote a long time ago that "the right tends to be more successful because it looks for converts while the left looks for traitors" which if anything feels more true now.

Never really thought about Bey (don't follow her either but nothing against her) but I like this as well as the other part about the left/right. It's really something to think about.