To think the vaccine shouldn't be given out by age criteria?

[studychick81]

I know the data says that the majority of people who get the virus and are most seriously ill or die are the elderly, over 82. But I was quite surprised by the potential order of giving out the vaccine.

1. people in care homes and care home workers- fair enough.

2. over 80s and health care workers.

3. age order oldest- youngest.

4. I don't agree with this. Surely all health care workers should get it before all people over 80? Shouldn't those 50 plus who have underlining issues which means catching it could be deadly get it over a normally healthy over 80 year old?

5. should kids who live with vulnerable adults/grand parents get it before a fit and healthy 40 year old?

6. should teachers, education workers get it before a fit 40 year old?

Young people have their whole lifetimes before them - plenty of time for any long term side effects to show themselves. Someone in their 80's might not have enough of their natural lifespan left for the long term side effects to become obvious. The impact of the unknown risk is therefore far greater the younger you are

Very true, @Desnol. But I would apply the same reasoning to the risk of COVID infection in young people. The longer term risks of infection are as yet unknown, although we are already seeing some of the "long haul" complications. There is also evidence that children with coronavirus are increasingly susceptible to a polio-like disease.

So how do you weigh the risk/reward? What's worse - an 80-year-old dying prematurely (which is all relative) of COVID or a eight year old left with permanent, life limiting conditions? It's not just a case of mortality rates.

@Fungster, you've got a point. It's an immensely complex and dangerous situation. Decision making would be complex even if we knew all the facts, but we don't - it's going to be pot luck, I believe.

Governments will be trying to safeguard the population, and their criteria won't be the same as those applied by families. If the family has young kids, they'll put their kids first. If the family has an elderly grandma living with them, their priorities are likely to be different. Some will think that COVID-19 poses a greater risk than a largely untested vaccine, while others will have the opposite view. As I said, until we know a lot more about how COVID-19 and it's vaccine behave, all our outcomes will be pot luck.

We don't even know whether the vaccine will be approved and when it will become available, and yet here we all are arguing about it. We'd all be far better off using this time (before the vaccine) to boost our immune systems:- healthy food, plenty of fibre and vitamins, regular exercise and a daily dollop of kefir.

There are two key aims in a vaccination program and hopefully the gov list reflects the best compromise.

1. Slowing the transmission through immunising those likely to spread the disease
2. Protecting the most vulnerable to the disease.

I don't know what the 'right' priority looks like but I'd assume a room full of virologists and modellers have a clearer understanding than me. I would also expect that over the time it takes to deploy we would tweak that priority as the demographic changes.

@Eng123

There are two key aims in a vaccination program and hopefully the gov list reflects the best compromise.

1. Slowing the transmission through immunising those likely to spread the disease
2. Protecting the most vulnerable to the disease.

I don't know what the 'right' priority looks like but I'd assume a room full of virologists and modellers have a clearer understanding than me. I would also expect that over the time it takes to deploy we would tweak that priority as the demographic changes.

With the flu jab they prioritised protecting the most vulnerable. The immunisation of children to help reduce the spread of flu each year was a lower priority and was introduced more recently.

With 1 in 3 of all the deaths being in people diabetes, you'd have thought it would've been added. At least for those over 40.

That doesn't mean an individual with diabetes has an extremely high risk. It just means they are more vulnerable. Diabetes doubles the risk. About 5 million people have diabetes and many of those people will be older so no wonder one in three deaths have been in people with diabetes.

I completely agree with you fungster. When my elderly grandad was hospitalised, he caught pneumonia and died a very quick, no fuss death which is exactly how he would've chosen to go (other than at home in his own bed with his wife who died 15 years previously). It was so sad and I loved him dearly, but it was a blessing.

There is no vaccine against pneumonia? Noro? These viruses often kill the elderly in hospital or care homes.

Pneumococcal vaccine protects against pneumonia and is on the vaccine schedule for the elderly and at risk. (Lots of other pathogens can cause pneumonia too but this protects against a common cause)

@tempnamechange98765

I completely agree with you fungster. When my elderly grandad was hospitalised, he caught pneumonia and died a very quick, no fuss death which is exactly how he would've chosen to go (other than at home in his own bed with his wife who died 15 years previously). It was so sad and I loved him dearly, but it was a blessing.

There is no vaccine against pneumonia? Noro? These viruses often kill the elderly in hospital or care homes.

There IS a pneumonia vaccine. It protects against 14 strains. It’s routinely offered for free to everyone over 65 and is a one time for life jab. You can also buy it privately.

There is a pneumonia vaccine which gives lifetime immunity. That’s why I won’t be having one, pneumonia is a friend if you have dementia.

Wow, well I have learned something new today! I had no idea.

It was definitely a blessing for my grandad

Why do so many people think teachers etc are banned from mask wearing and so on? Yes, maybe it's not hospital issue ppe but it does offer some protection and we are encouraged and supported to wear it.

Just to respond again to BBQ1’s post about how masks are encouraged and supported, look at the response to this school who has just announced masks in lessons on twitter.
twitter.com/polesworthschl/status/1323291489800171520?s=21

I’m guessing there’s a desire on the part of headteachers not to be publicly accused of child abuse?

Does everything have to be about teachers on here?

A surprising number of teachers on here never seem to be in a classroom anyway

Dn, a teacher, is I am afraid one of those partying and raving 20-somethings. It's the pupils who should be wearing hazmat suits in her presence!

@howaboutholly

Does everything have to be about teachers on here?

Apparently yes. Very annoying, there are many other jobs that also matter!

Part time, innit.

How dare teachers join in on a conversation where the OP specifically mentions teachers.

It’s not the joining in, it’s the taking over.

@howaboutholly

It’s not the joining in, it’s the taking over.

Hardly. One person mentioned teachers should be higher up the list of priority and everyone else has gone on about it since.

Instead of spending your commenting time telling other people not to post about what they’re interested in discussing, how about you post about what you’re interested in discussing?

Weird how people think they are entitled to tell people not to post things they’re not interested in.

Oh and I'm part time too. Although I shouldn't need to explain myself.

I wasn’t aware I did, sherry I have no idea why you wish to inform me of your working hours, but um, thanks.

I am interested in the topic as a whole giraffe, and believe it or not, it’s not just about teachers.

@howaboutholly

I wasn’t aware I did, sherry I have no idea why you wish to inform me of your working hours, but um, thanks.

I am interested in the topic as a whole giraffe, and believe it or not, it’s not just about teachers.

I wasn't talking to you.

I am interested in the topic as a whole giraffe, and believe it or not, it’s not just about teachers.

Er, good for you? How about you post some interesting non-teacher discussion then instead of moaning at teachers who might be keen on discussing the teaching angle?

Again, weird. MN isn’t some personal service for you.

You do like to shut people down, I know. By all means carry on thundering on about how teachers and teachers alone are impacted. For my part, I am bored to tears with it.

@howaboutholly

You do like to shut people down, I know. By all means carry on thundering on about how teachers and teachers alone are impacted. For my part, I am bored to tears with it.

I haven't seen Noble do that. She always stands up for teachers when incorrect data or derogatory opinions are given. I personally appreciate it very much. I think you are bringing your own agenda and lashing out unnecessarily.

Shutting people down by telling them they are free to post about stuff that interests them?

For my part, I am bored to tears with it.

So what? It’s totally bizarre that you think that posters should give a shit about whether you, personally are interested in what they are saying.