To think the vaccine shouldn't be given out by age criteria?

[studychick81]

I know the data says that the majority of people who get the virus and are most seriously ill or die are the elderly, over 82. But I was quite surprised by the potential order of giving out the vaccine.

1. people in care homes and care home workers- fair enough.

2. over 80s and health care workers.

3. age order oldest- youngest.

4. I don't agree with this. Surely all health care workers should get it before all people over 80? Shouldn't those 50 plus who have underlining issues which means catching it could be deadly get it over a normally healthy over 80 year old?

5. should kids who live with vulnerable adults/grand parents get it before a fit and healthy 40 year old?

6. should teachers, education workers get it before a fit 40 year old?

Obviously it's anecdotal, but that doesn't tally with my personal experience at all - hence why I asked. :)

Yes, thank you Bah

@Baaaahhhhh

Bear in mind also that many of the 2.2m ECV persons, are in the elderly groups, so statistically, you are double counting many of the priority vaccine group. So, over 75's contain 30% of ECV for example, 60-75 another 33%, 50-60 have 15%, so in vaccinating those older groups you are also sweeping up 75% of all ECV. You are effectively getting double benefit for your buck.

Yes very good point

In a way that makes it seem especially silly (more divide and conquer?) not to include younger ECV though, as it's only a case of circa 500,000 people (some of whom already included in HCP etc, some who can't have it anyway, and some of whom will refuse it)

Of course that depends on how easy it is to acquire 500,000 vaccines a step or two earlier...

It’s about 600,000 (assuming that you’re not including shielded DC)

I am one of them, and about 14 million people will get their jab before me, including healthy people of working age

Blood cancers are interesting (and terrifying). My elderly mother is a multiple myeloma sufferer, in remission (but it never actually goes away, just becomes impossible to measure). Her blood stats are actually quite good now-- she's not currently being treated. White blood cells, red blood cells, all normal for her age. Does this mean she defaults to being at the same risk as other 82-year-old women?

In terms of when she gets the vaccine, yes she will get it with everyone else at 80+

Me and my leukaemia have to wait until after every 65+ including those in normal good health

Yes, that's hard, iVampire.

I think blood cancers are difficult on so many levels, often because other people don't understand them. I know I didn't until my FIL, mother and an aunt all got myeloma.

The number of people who tell us that a cousin also had a melanoma and it was fine after it was cut out...

It’s worth bearing in mind that some of the conditions and treatments which would put you in the ECV category might preclude you from having some of the vaccines. So as they have said the priority list is likely to be reviewed depending on effectiveness and safety of the individual vaccines. I don’t think it’s worth getting too stressed about it yet as things could change anyway.

@BungleandGeorge

It’s worth bearing in mind that some of the conditions and treatments which would put you in the ECV category might preclude you from having some of the vaccines. So as they have said the priority list is likely to be reviewed depending on effectiveness and safety of the individual vaccines. I don’t think it’s worth getting too stressed about it yet as things could change anyway.

I haven't seen it mentioned that some people in the ECV category wouldn't be able to have the vaccine. None of them are live vaccines.

@Hercwasonaroll they are collecting occupation data thats how they identified that bus drivers for example were in a higher risk category.

Sparkly that occupation data was collected between March and May.

I assume that some of the issue for some ECV people is that they might be so immuno suppressed that having the vaccine won't actually be protective for them - you need a vaguely working immune system for it to "learn" immunity through any kind of vaccine, live or not.

Assume there's some other reasons for it to not work - my science knowledge is patchy.

They may need to have further research to establish how effective it is in different risk groups. But there definitely are vaccines which are safe and effective for those in CEV categories, and the latest I read is that there is no obvious reason why it definitely would not work

Saying that, after further research, it won't work and therefore cannot be offered is one thing. Saying it will not be offered until after healthy people, some of working age, even if effective is quite another.

I'm shocked, I hadn't realised it was so heavily based on age. Surely a healthy 80 year old would want a very vulnerable 25 year old to have it before them anyway? And they should. Surely very vulnerable people, regardless of age, should be first?

Why is Mumsnet the only place I see teachers acting as if they are in the trenches in WWI? Why should they be on the same level as social care and health care workers?!

The teachers I know in RL are happy to be back in work, socialising in their spare time (some within guidelines, some not).

Age is what makes people very vulnerable. It's the biggest risk factor.

Why should they be on the same level as social care and health care workers?!

Sorry but where else in our community’s do we have so many huge numbers of people in one place switching places?

200 kids in a canteen, switched for the next year group
120 kids going through the changing rooms

200 kids on a bus home
400 in an assembly hall

Most teachers teach 200 kids a week every week

Why wouldn’t they be ahead of others?

Why wouldn’t they be ahead of others?

Because they’re not at the highest risk for admission to hospital or dying.

Yes that fact, and the fact that covid is not spreading in schools at the same rate as in care homes! Teachers aren't required to get up close and personal with students in the same way that social and health care workers are.

Especially primary schools. And primary school teachers don't teach anywhere near that many children.

The infection rate in secondary school kids is way higher than in the elderly.

Is it? Higher than in care homes, and hospitals?

Do you have a source for that?

But vaccinating teachers and lecturers won't ensure schools stay open and f2f teaching as if one student catches it the bubble still needs to self isolate

@noblegiraffe

The infection rate in secondary school kids is way higher than in the elderly.

And what about death rates? How do those compare?

@noblegiraffe.... the old people die. Get a grip and have some humanity

Its amazing that after months of

Education is so important
Teachers must go back to the classroom
Pupils health and mental wellbeing
School is so important for getting people back to work

Now that we have a vaccine we are once again back to education is near the bottom of the pile.