Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Anyone else annoyed when someone saying 'get a job'

228 replies

RUNFAST11 · 07/11/2020 17:24

Before COVID it was still hard to find a job but now it has become more difficult.

Recently, Dispatches showed a programme where there were 947 applications for a waiter role at a Manchester role and the pay was around minimum wage. And the person who got that job was later told they could not be hired due to the new lockdown restrictions.

www.thelondoneconomic.com/business-economics/minimum-wage-restaurant-job-receives-947-applications/02/11/

Unemployment is likely to rise and could reach double figures in 2021. Getting a job is not as easy it was in the past where you could walk in and get hired. Now you have things such as: online applications, Skype interviews, Face to Face interviews, Online tests etc...

OP posts:
Frestba · 09/11/2020 21:41

@GreyPebbledash

Not half op.The reduction in jobs has been happening for years, along with the reduction in the real worth of wages. At least now everyone can see it happening and is prepared to admit it. "Get a job in a shop" has particularly annoyed me lately because I used to work in retail, in supermarkets, and I could do checkout and customer service work in my sleep: but I've taken one look at the 'personality profiling' rubbish they do now and there's no way I'd pass just to the interview stage. Then they make you do all manner of irrelevant hippy-clappy crap in the interviews too. To pass the personality tests you need to be either totally innocent and oblivious to the breakdown of the economy, or an incredibly good actor: as an embittered 40 something with very little to show for the last 20 years of work I have no chance. To pass the interviews you need to be highly extrovert, confident and outgoing, and the mere ability to do a job you've done before gets you nowhere.
Try the local council. I can't speak for all but this is true where I work. Picking personality types is now considered discriminatory. Names, addresses and ages are all blanked out before selection.. It's good for those of us who don't have "bubbly" personalities. No silly questions at interview that leave you feeling humiliated. Standard ones, the same for everyone, for equality reasons.
MiaMarshmallows · 09/11/2020 22:41

Once the vaccine comes in, jobs will become more available. Not long to wait now thankfully.

WayTooSoon · 09/11/2020 22:55

YANBU.

Twenty years ago, if you wanted a job, you looked in the local paper or in the shop window of the local newsagents and posted off a cv, so each employer would get maybe 10 or so applicants. Now if you want a job, you look on the big job websites and can submit your cv with one click, so you can easily apply to a hundred jobs a day... and so can everyone else from around the country, not just those close by, so each job has hundreds of applicants. Employers can't possibly read all of them, let alone respond. And it can get very disheartening not hearing back from a hundred jobs, so being told "get a job" can be an extra kick while you're down.

That said, if you just want "a job" rather than a particular career, I think the old ways are best - look in shop windows for "help wanted" signs. A lot of smaller businesses (cafes, pubs, independent shops) will still advertise this way because they know only local people will apply and they won't have to sift through 500 CVs to find someone.

Graphista · 09/11/2020 23:04

Recent retail experience is often required because of the pace of technological change. Retail is one of the most high-tech areas these days. Stock is controlled and ordered automatically. Self-serve tills are becoming the norm, as is self scanning via phones/handsets, etc. At tills, you have to deal with different forms of payment, vouchers (paper and electronic), etc. Even layout of stock on shelves is automated/computer planned, so the shelf stacker has to put specific numbers of each item in specific places dictated on their handset, etc i first worked in retail over 30 years ago. I’ve left and returned to it at various points over the years (was a forces dependent) and while the tech has developed the basic skills and understanding have remained the same, indeed the tech and planning has made many tasks much easier.

Stock control - we’d be penalised in our wages if we were responsible for a dept and there was too much wastage! We had to anticipate sales and have enough in for customers requirements BUT not too much resulting in too much wastage - very tricky with sections like dairy!

Food safety regs - I’m a wee short arse more than once I tipped into chest freezers and needed helped out when checking temps or cleaning up a spillage! Again penalised if we cocked up! Yes there are more regs now but they’re largely just enforcing good practice that always happened in the good retailers anyway or near as dammit

We had to deal with “different forms of payment” back in the day too, credit cards (those lovely carbon copy machines that could easily trap finger skin! Often jammed or failed to work), cheques - (there was a lot to remember to ensure it would go through ok and spot possible fraud), luncheon vouchers, travellers cheques etc all had their own rules on eg what items they could be used for, cash - most customers used cash then, and the tills didn’t tell you how much change to give! You had to make change based on fast accurate mental arithmetic which I suspect many younger folk would struggle to do now, some of the shops I worked in were in shops that accepted foreign currency - try getting paid in $ and making correct change in £!!

We also had to cash up our own tills manually and woe betide you if you were so much as a penny out! We also had to know the current price of every item we sold including any special offers (and when these ended) in case the price labels fell off (which they frequently did) or customers switched them to try and pull a fast one!

It may be different now but I don’t agree necessarily harder! Certainly I found it hugely easier running a checkout with scanners, change owed displayed, electronic payments being more common and easy & quick to process, and refunds easier to do! Back when I started to get a refund processed you had to call a supervisor, they had a key for each individual till to release the cash drawer and it would be taken away and quickly checked before a refund given! There was a form to read, check appropriate boxes and sign for every refund!

As repeatedly said on this thread, there ARE a lot more jobs than candidates. actually many of us have been saying the precise opposite! As do govts own stats!

There are far, far more people unemployed than there are jobs available

You do realise that the Jobcentre give people vouchers to buy an interview outfit? erm, I think that options been gone for a while? Even when it did exist not everyone was eligible to receive that help.

There are charities in some cities that help with this with donated clothes but you have to be referred and be able to get to them.

How exactly do men have ‘more leeway’ on this? cos they can wear smart trousers or a suit multiple times and nobody bats an eye!

And YES! On women’s clothes cost more! I haven’t bought women’s jumpers, tee shirts (except for vest style which are cheap), socks (buy in boys section), belts, hats or scarves for years! Men’s are way cheaper! Jeans I’ve bought in boys sections at times there too, depends on the cut that’s in fashion whether it works.

Try the local council

Your experience might apply at the larger town/city councils, as I said upthread where I live (small town, very little migration in or out of the area, everyone knows everyone...) the council is basically perhaps even completely staffed by the same 4 families!

Frestba · 09/11/2020 23:27

Many interviews at the moment are being done via WhatsApp or Zoom so no interview outfit required. You do need use of a phone however.

Graphista · 09/11/2020 23:32

Oh...

Also on the tech in retail thing.

My mum started in retail almost 60 years ago, she retired a few years back.

As she got older she often came across the assumption that being the age she was she "wouldn't cope" with the tech advances.

She actually had as her second job aged 15 basically computer programming, she has no fear whatsoever of technology and is extremely keen at keeping up with it all and is a total geek! Grin She regularly hammers the grandkids playing them at various video games. The eldest dn is apparently starting to beat her and she's most annoyed so she's playing more on her own of an evening (well against other players online) to catch up! Well stay ahead really Wink

She went for one job and the supervisor assigned to "train" her was being particularly condescending and patronising.

She was a good 30 years younger than mum but spoke slowly and carefully as though mum was stupid! After each step she described she'd ask mum if she understood. Mum nodded along and let her speak. Mums quite shy especially around new people.

Then at the end she was going to let mum "have a go" and see if she could manage the tasks, via a role play type scenario.

Cue mum saying she had a few questions.

Supervisor sort of rolled eyes type attitude

Mum then asked why they were doing things the way they were as x system was actually designed so that the tasks involved could be done more quickly and recorded more accurately by doing them another way.

Turns out the supervisor was self trained and had never been formally trained on this exact system.

Mum was one of the first people to ever use it and had received formal training on it which she thought the supervisor knew as that's partly why she got the job! So there was some confusion there.

She was able to show the supervisor quicker and easier processes that were how the system was designed to be used.

I first heard this story as a result of being totally bemused when on holiday at mums when I noticed her supervisor kept calling her at home to ask her how to do certain tasks or fix mistakes the supervisor had made!

Employers and even once hired bosses really shouldn't make assumptions on the skills and experience an employee has.

I've had people think based on how I looked that I couldn't do certain jobs (mainly manual work when I was younger as I'm Teeny height wise and was very slim at the time but I used to actually be quite strong. Unfortunately no longer the case due to disability)

I was in one job where i pretty much humped pallets of wood around all day! Went on a night out once with colleagues (all burly looking chaps) and another guy got talking to us and was disbelieving of me doing that job, so I (with his consent) lifted him and carried him a fight of stairs to just outside the gents.

He was 5' 11 to my 5'1" and I reckon had a good weight on me too though I'm crap at assessing that stuff

His face was like Shock when I popped him down! Grin

GreyPebbledash · 10/11/2020 09:23

I used to do supervisory work in retail and would echo what Graphista says. The basic game has not changed. If you can use a supermarket to buy stuff you can use them to help people. It’s all just deliberate blockers to desperately try and reduce applications down by computer because they don’t want to hire more recruitment staff either. Have you honestly not seen any of the warnings about tech taking over jobs because it’s cheaper!
I’d love to work for the council again but it’s not going to happen in the area I’m in - which we moved to because housing is affordable. If I get the chance...

marktayloruk · 10/11/2020 10:04

Are local.Councils still.recruiting? And wouldn't a bubbly.personality be rather necessary when coming into contact with the public?

Bathroom12345 · 10/11/2020 10:20

I have fortunately never been out of work. Had some rubbish A levels and didnt go to university.

People who complain that they just cannot get a job. I think there is always a story behind this. I am working now - nearly 60, my DS is working at 23, DH is working (although his area of expertise has slowed).

I think you need to be flexible. I have one friend who had been looking for a role for over 2 years (she was very fussy!). Wanted part time, all school hols off. She eventually got a admin type role and lasted a few weeks. Didnt like the chair she was given as she said it hurt her back. So back she went to moaning there was just nothing around, wasnt worth bothering etc etc.

There are jobs around but at present you need to be flexible. If you want part time, cannot drive, been a SAHM for a number of years, cannot do any extra hours if requested, no qualifications etc the chances are you will struggle and you might need to manage yopur own expectations.

My youngest DS now at university got a job at a well know posh supermarket easily during holidays. He then got another one in a factory. Yes, its zero hours but he wanted that. He had to work shifts, we had to take him there because he couldnt drive but we made it work..Take a job, be flexible, it wont be forever but some people are just too picky and my DN who runs a company tells me the people who wont do more than 16 hours because it affects their benefits. Surely benefits should never be a choice?

Pukkatea · 10/11/2020 10:32

My mum was a farm worker. She needed to live close to the farm as she couldn't afford a car on the wage and started work at 3am so she lived in a single room over a stable that was rotting and mouldy. She had so little money and time that we lived with our dad and saw her once every few months. There is a reason those jobs are suited to unattached men coming from abroad.

Pukkatea · 10/11/2020 10:34

@Bathroom12345 you can't see the difference between a young lad who is happy to pick up a few hours during the uni holidays and whose parents can drive him wherever, vs someone who doesn't have any of that privilege and actually needs a job to survive and support a family?

Biddie191 · 10/11/2020 13:26

It is really soul destroying. My 18 year old daughter has applied for over 300 jobs, the majority she gets absolutely no reply for, the few (6 or 7) who do reply she gets a 'sorry you're unsuccessful' stock reply. She's got 4 A-A* A levels and is going to uni next September - the idea was she could work for a year between to get some money towards fees. She's applied for everything, cleaning, shop work, bar work, reception work, lab work, animal work, farm work, mucking out..... She has experience in bar work from while she was studying for her A levels, volunteered extensively in care homes, Riding for the Disabled, she's tutored maths and sciences to siblings of friends, so she is getting out getting experience, but is overlooked. Many of the jobs she's applying for have 250+ applicants, most are minimum wage. There are just so many looking.
She's filling her time with online courses to try and boost her employability.
It really is soul destroying.

NameChange84 · 10/11/2020 13:38

@Biddie191

It is really soul destroying. My 18 year old daughter has applied for over 300 jobs, the majority she gets absolutely no reply for, the few (6 or 7) who do reply she gets a 'sorry you're unsuccessful' stock reply. She's got 4 A-A* A levels and is going to uni next September - the idea was she could work for a year between to get some money towards fees. She's applied for everything, cleaning, shop work, bar work, reception work, lab work, animal work, farm work, mucking out..... She has experience in bar work from while she was studying for her A levels, volunteered extensively in care homes, Riding for the Disabled, she's tutored maths and sciences to siblings of friends, so she is getting out getting experience, but is overlooked. Many of the jobs she's applying for have 250+ applicants, most are minimum wage. There are just so many looking. She's filling her time with online courses to try and boost her employability. It really is soul destroying.
I’m so sorry to hear this. It sounds almost identical to when I graduated into the recession...I had to sign on for 6 months and it WAS soul destroying. Like your DD I was a straight A/A* student who had worked through my studies and volunteered. I wish I could say I landed a job after six months but actually...I didn’t. I set up as self employed running after school clubs and tutoring and eventually went into teaching then lecturing. Two of my friends do not have a degree etc but they have taken TEFL courses online in the lockdown and are now earning great money teaching English online to overseas students. Would your dd be interested in anything like this? Or is there any other self-employment Avenue she could look into at the moment? Childcare? Ironing/Cleaning service?
GreenlandTheMovie · 10/11/2020 13:55

MarkTaylorUK There are too.many.rules, laws and regulations and too much emphasis on paper qualifications .How about repealing some of them?

Some of the requirements for jobs are bafflling and complicated, and its impossible to maintain standards, making the "qualifications" requited pointless.

In Scotland, we have the crazy situation where qualified, practising solicitors are not permitted to work as letting agents, even as part of their firm. They must instead attend a week long course costing £1500-£2000, taught by non-legally qualified persons (quite possibly people with no qualifications at all) who explain the basics of the law on agency and lettings.

Not to forget too that in Scotland, a degree qualified electrical or electronics engineer (or similar) is not permitted to change a plug for use in their home. They have to get an electrician to come and do it for them.

Its utterly farcical.

Likewise, some qualifications are just a tick box exercise in opening modules on a computer via distance learning, with no way of proving the information has been read - cf the security guard at the Manchester bombing.

Frestba · 10/11/2020 14:36

@marktayloruk

Are local.Councils still.recruiting? And wouldn't a bubbly.personality be rather necessary when coming into contact with the public?
Very much so, councils are much busier since Covid. Not all staff are public facing. Being "bubbly" might well be quite inappropriate given that they're largely dealing with people's problems.
JohnMcCainsDeathStare · 10/11/2020 15:30

'Bubbly' is the kiss of death for me. Would explain why I have been unemployed for so long even when looking for jobs while doing other things.

Question is: are men bubbly? and if so is it critically important.

Allergictoironing · 10/11/2020 16:27

@Lowkeevslucille

winniestone37 if it's that bad, accept a real job then... As repeatedly said on this thread, there ARE a lot more jobs than candidates.

You are spectacularly missing the point, benefits are designed as a safety net, to tide you over until you find your next job - or to help if you become a widow/er or suffer major healthy issue. That's it.

It's not supposed to be a paid holiday.

If there's a lot more jobs than candidates, how come there's up to 2-300 applications for just about every minimum wage job out there? There are definitely more people looking for work than there are jobs, and remember that the official number of vacancies includes part time (I've seen as little as 8 hours a week) & zero hours contracts.

The unemployment figures also just count people claiming JSA, and there's an awful lot of people who can't claim JSA and who need a job e.g. people with a partner who work, or people with a very small income from other sources.

I'm another one who has a job-dispersion aura. I am happy to do anything that involves being able to sit (lumbar arthritis) and get told I'm over qualified all the time despite having toned down my CV significantly over the years, that's when I get any response at all.

Benefits these days are also there to top up the incredibly low wages some people get e.g. tax credits. And I can't understand your point about widows/widowers - why should someone who has been married have any additional benefits over a single person?

Benefits for a single adult person don't allow for being on a "paid holiday". Try paying all household bills, food, mortgage (or even just the interest), transport etc on just under £75 per week.

Seymour5 · 10/11/2020 18:21

@marktayloruk

Are local.Councils still.recruiting? And wouldn't a bubbly.personality be rather necessary when coming into contact with the public?
Our local council is recruiting for a few roles. However, they have their own application system, not CVs. I retired a few years ago, but helped numerous colleagues with completing applications. Very much competency based.

I ran a customer service operation with more than one reception desk. Bubbly wasn't required, calmness is a lot less irritating, especially to customers who need help! Awareness, emotional intelligence and a helpful attitude are far more useful.

eaglejulesk · 11/11/2020 03:46

If there's a lot more jobs than candidates, how come there's up to 2-300 applications for just about every minimum wage job out there?

Exactly - how is it people can't grasp that fact? I live in a rural town (not in the UK, but things are just the same here, and also the same type of rubbish is being spouted) and there are approximately 800 registered job seekers, and of course there will be others not registered. There is no way there are more than 800 available jobs in the district. People seem to think that if you are serious about getting a job you just turn up at a workplace and they will take you on - if only it was that easy.

Graphista · 11/11/2020 04:22

I think you need to be flexible.

Not everyone CAN be. Employees have lives and other responsibilities. Children, elderly relatives that need care, homes to run, and frankly they deserve a life too!

Something I’ve noticed that never used to be the case is this ridiculous “rolling shifts” or shifts only being told to the employee weekly crap!

It serves nobody really I can’t even understand how it serves the employer!

Employees need to be able to plan their lives eg a parent with a variable unpredictable shift pattern will find childcare incredibly hard to organise and pay for!

These and zero hours bullshit mean employers essentially have employees “on call” without actually paying them to be so.

It’s a piss take!

Then these same employers also get shitty if their PART TIME employees who are in need of full time pay DARE to consider an additional job with someone else

These are people not Fucking robots!

and my DN who runs a company tells me the people who wont do more than 16 hours because it affects their benefits. Surely benefits should never be a choice?

Have you ever had to manage a household budget under these conditions? There’s a huge problem with a gap between under 16 hours and over 16 hours where people can be significantly worse off as a result of trying to work more hours. They’re effectively penalised for doing so.

In theory UC was supposed to eliminate that problem - but then the tories got a hold of it!

My dd has 3 jobs at the moment as well as being a full time student. She can be “flexible” and a good employee at the moment as she:

Is cheap (not yet 21)

Young and relatively fit and healthy

Has nobody else dependent on her

Has no bills to pay (she’s staying with family who are happy to cover roof and board, for which she is extremely appreciative and contributes at home in other ways inc providing childcare)

Is living somewhere with pretty good transport links plus relatives willing and able to give her lifts if she’s worked late etc

She’s not even yet 20 yet apparently has a greater understanding of why it’s easier (although not “easy” with almost 1000 applicants per position) for someone like her to get work than it is for someone who is

More expensive to pay

Older and may be less fit and able for certain jobs (many nmw jobs are very physical)

Someone who has to organise and pay for childcare or has other caring responsibilities, and is therefore limited the hours they can do. As someone who’s been a childminder myself I’m astonished that STILL so few childcare providers offer hours outside “office hours” essentially. So many still only offer mon-fri 7am (if you’re lucky! Many it’s still 8am starts!) and 6pm finishes! I’m astonished not only because I know the demand is there but because it makes no business sense to me, they could make a fortune if they offered weekends alone! And so many still close on bank holidays etc at the drop of a hat!

Responsible for covering the rent/mortgage and other household bills so needs a decent amount of income

Unable to drive or perhaps use public transport or lives somewhere the public transport is shit or very expensive (usually both in rural locations!)

Everybody’s circumstances are different

and remember that the official number of vacancies includes part time (I've seen as little as 8 hours a week) regularly 2 hour contracts around here - but these are well known high street employers and it’s not a lack of hours needing covered it’s so that’s the contracted hours if they have to pay redundancies etc BUT they then have a combination of many employees and give them loads of “overtime” - they’re dodging their responsibilities under employment law

If a 19 year old can grasp reality someone old enough to be their mother ought to be able to as well.

But frequently on mn there are older posters who ought to know better on several issues and yet are oblivious to or in denial of the facts.

Biddie191 · 11/11/2020 10:05

Namechange84 - she's doing a few online courses, and manages to pick up the occasional babysitting / pub shift, and is trying to work out how to do some commissioned work to keep her busy (she's very talented at art, although this is not likely to be a career, it keeps her busy, and will earn her a little in the meantime.
She really is happy to do anything, she's not 'above' anything.

DrCoconut · 12/11/2020 17:14

Bubbly as a person descriptor is one of the few words that makes me want to stick pins in my eyes. It almost invariably translates to that annoying, everybody look at me cos I'm such an extrovert type that just doesn't know when to shut up. I agree that often some who is level headed and calming and just gets on with things is better than the office "character" who indulges in the work equivalent of performance parenting (performance working?)

WitchesGlove · 12/11/2020 17:56

@DrCoconut

Bubbly as a person descriptor is one of the few words that makes me want to stick pins in my eyes. It almost invariably translates to that annoying, everybody look at me cos I'm such an extrovert type that just doesn't know when to shut up. I agree that often some who is level headed and calming and just gets on with things is better than the office "character" who indulges in the work equivalent of performance parenting (performance working?)
Completely agree. Excellent post.

I wish ‘extroverts’, would just realise how annoying they actually are; and that no, not everyone wants to/ should be like them.

Think loud voice/ loud laugh/ opinionated/ strong body language/ invades personal space/ overshares information about personal life/ lack of tact/ gossips a lot

Frestba · 12/11/2020 19:09

It was very common a few decades ago in job ads to ask for a "bubbly girl Friday". So horribly sexist. But it was at the time.

David90Dyson · 03/03/2021 15:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.