AIBU people flashing for you to pull out in front of them

[Georgeoftheinternet]

I’ve only been driving in the U.K. for a few years and when I lived overseas everyone followed the strict rules.

The U.K. is different and one thing that annoys me is when you are pulling out of a side road and people flash you to pull out in front of them.

Firstly, if I miss read the flashing of lights/hand gesture and crash into them, it’s my fault.

Secondly, the car behind them can’t see what they are doing and could hit them. There is the chance my car could get his by this impact. I could also be the driver behind and no pay attention for a split second and crash into them.

Thirdly, it’s often pointless and not doing a good turn. For example today I wanted to turn right and a car was driving from my left. He flashed me to come out and there was an empty road (just one car behind them). How is it beneficial to me to save a few second but also maybe cause a crash.

I hate this as a pedestrian, too. I’ve had some really horrible, sweary reactions to a polite ‘no thanks, you go’ when the driver has flashed me and my children across when he is the only car on the road, so we would have a clear road after he’s gone.

I will have just said to them ‘wait for the road to be clear, then look both ways’ etc. They’re 2 and 4 so still teaching walking sensibly across the road holding hands. I’ve found a lot of drivers who flash you across then creep towards you slowly instead of stopping, and my youngest is still at the age where a random trip up could happen at any point, so why would we cross in front of a car when we could cross a clear road?

I always smile and politely decline, but often get a mouthful back. Even waiting for the green man, drivers have told me to cross. I’ve said ‘we’re just waiting for the green man’ and got ‘fucking suit yourself then, stupid bitch’ in front of my kids. He had to stop at the lights anyway, so what was the problem?

Gridlock is not rare in and around the city where I work (not UK) and if people didn’t make an effort to let others out eg to cross junctions, nobody would be able to get anywhere in reasonable time. People letting you out is an example of humans cooperating for the greater good, surely? So I think YABU.

@OneTC

Driven all over the world and it's one of the nicer local customs I've encountered. If you don't want to follow someone's instructions you're not obliged to

Whatever the intention, it's not nice in effect.

And I've seen drivers turn nasty when their 'nice' gesture is rejected.

My right turn into the business park for work allows me to see traffic coming from three sides of the crossroads at once. I've had a 'nice' gentleman staring directly straight on at me from the opposite direction start to lean on the horn, wave and gesticulate at me for not going when he's let me...

... When doing so would have meant putting myself in the path of the car nipping around him AND the lorry coming out of the business park. My office overlooks that junction and watching people crash almost always involves someone misreading the road.

Didn't Bill Bryson write about this in his first ever book?

Plus raising your hand. Just. Above the steering wheel. To say thank you.

Both very British. Quirks. I love it! Makes me very proud.

I tried driving in Cairo once. When I lived there. Note, the 'once'.

The most annoying thing about this habit is the people flashing are very often such virtue-signalling do-gooders.

Many times I’ve been in situations where somebody has stopped when they were the only car on the road! It would have taken less than a second for them to drive past, but instead they decided to slow down, stop, and start saving incoherent hands signals at me.

By this time, other traffic behind flasher which did have a fairly clear road ahead with smooth flowing traffic has now had to stop abruptly.

Flasher then starts to swear and make rude hand signals.

More traffic starts to build up.

Eventually flasher goes “ah fuck you”, and drives off.

Now all the traffic behind them is much closer together because of the build up they caused.

All those motorists have been delayed, and the poor pedestrian or car pulling out of a junction is left still sitting there waiting.

IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN LESS THAN A SECOND FOR YOU TO JUST KEEP ON DRIVING PAST THE JUNCTION AT 30MPH, YOU PLONKER!!! THERE WAS A HUGE GAP BEHIND YOU BEFORE YOU CAUSED ALL THIS!

Waiting to turn right at the traffic lights just down the road from my house, in a filter lane. Nothing behind me. Huge queue of traffic in the opposite direction steadily flowing through the lights. There is a right turn filter so I knew I just had a minute to wait, at most. Suddenly realised that a van coming in the opposite direction had stopped and was furiously flashing and waving for me to go. Totally pointless, saved me about 20 seconds and meant several of the people behind him would have missed their chance to get through on that cycle of the lights.
Similar happens when I leave work. The exit is about 50 yards from very busy traffic lights, but the phasing of the lights means you never wait long. At least half the time someone stops, oblivious to the fact that they are holding up the queue behind them.

I don't mind it if it keeps the traffic moving at busy times. I don't flash people out if it's clear behind me because they can just go then! It annoys me particularly where I live.. I live on a main road and have a drive that I prefer to reverse onto because it's dangerous reversing out onto a main road. Often when I'm coming from the other side of the road, I pull into the hatchings in the middle of the road and indicate right because I am intending on pulling up onto the pavement along side my property and then reversing onto my drive. It really annoys me when people coming from the opposite direction stop and 'flash me in' because for some reason, they always expect you to drive forwards onto the drive, then they get annoyed when you proceed to carry on, on their left, because I'm reversing. It always takes them by surprise and sometimes they get annoyed and beep. I'd rather just wait until it was all clear. They get funny when you say no aswell. Sometimes I put my hazards on and just wait, but they sometimes still try 😂. They think they're being helpful but they're really not.

There are times when you would never get in or out of a side road if people weren't kind and let you out or across, so I am grateful most of the time.

However, I don't like them doing it when they've not looked in their mirror and noticed there's nobody behind them.

And I don't like them flashing me to turn into a side road when a pedestrian is in the process of crossing it. Pedestrians have priority.

And yes it's often annoying as a pedestrian too. I sometimes deliberately look in the other direction - it's particularly annoying when they decide it's a good idea to let me across when it's a green light for them and red light for me. It's hardly fair on the traffic behind them.

On the other hand, you then get the people who make it as difficult for you to cross as possible by either slowing down but not enough for you to go in front of them so you have to wait while they dawdle, or speed up and close up a gap between them and the car in front.

OP, although we have reduced deaths and injuries from road crashes greatly over the last forty years, we still have a long way to go. There is still the approach/attitude that somehow you can be a person unfit to drive a car (medical reasons, drink or drugs), not observe speed limits, or drive aggressively, through red lights and yet that somehow is not a crime. Driving should be a privilege not somehow a right.

The behaviour you describe is mostly a positive thing in my experience though, and long down on the list of motorists' behaviour I'd seek to change.

cologne I deliberately look away too.

@GammyLeg

It's a dick move. I also hate it as a pedestrian.

In my town, someone recently flashed and stopped for a pedestrian with a pram to cross a busy road. The pedestrian stepped into the road, but the car behind went into the car that had stopped, shunting it into the pram.

Luckily the baby was unhurt, but could've been so much worse.

The driver of the car behind was at fault. The driver of a car should be able to stop in time to avoid hitting the car in front of it at ALL TIMES.

Reverse the order of events. The woman steps out. First car does an emergency stop to avoid hitting her. Second car rear end shunts him into pram.

In neither case is the driver in the first car at fault.

I totally agree with you Op. My driving instructor told me never to do it because of the liability issue but over the years I've started to do it because people get irritated if you don't. The other morning a driver did it. It was very foggy and I hesitated (how dare I!). He decided to make his move and turned the corner so tightly, I thought he was going to hit my car. Meanwhile he was swearing and gesticulating. Wtf?

@JamMakingWannaBe

I live in South Central Scotland. My sister lives in London. On a recent trip up she was astounded how courteous other drivers were - letting how out at junctions etc. I think it's a location thing.

True, I noticed this when moving from a large NW town to Norfolk, drivers are far more courteous. The one difference though would be in car parks, when we moved down it had become the norm in the NW for cars in carparks to be booked if they weren't within the white lines, in Norfolk it seems to be the reverse, how many white lines can you touch?

I know! That’s the most ridiculous thing, MissEliza.

Why don’t they just keep driving if it’s annoyed them so much to stop?! It’s mind boggling.

I agree with Sandman.

A kind driver does a kind thing to help a mum with a pram cross the road, gets' the back of their car crashed into by a dangerous driver who hasn't left a safe distance and/or doesn't know how to use their brakes (and could have done exactly the same whatever the reason for the car in front stopping/slowing down quickly in traffic) - and, in return, is told that they were doing a 'dick move'

Talk about no good deed going unpunished.

I agree OP. I start screaming they should follow the fucking rules. And then I question if I might me slightly on the autistic spectrum. I'm glad I'm not the only person who dislikes this flashing nonsense.

Sandman / SausageRoll - 100% agree that the driver behind should have left a large enough, and should not a crashed into the car in front.

However, stopping abruptly in smooth flowing traffic is also against the Highway Code.

There clearly are some people who use it as a power trip and/or get angry and aggressive if somebody declines their invitation (although I do wonder whether people decline with a waved hand and mouthed 'thank you' or just stare at them and ignore them); but you could say that about anything.

In my experience, it's a normal everyday part of driving in built-up areas that just about every driver (other than learners and inexperienced/unconfident ones) will routinely do. If 100 drivers flash or wave you to go, you graciously decline every time, and 99 of them respond with a smile and a 'no problem' hand signal, this is an indictment on the aggressive 1% that don't - not on the standard manouevre itself.

I would also add (and some will disagree with me here) that I see the Highway Code as a basic lowest-common-denominator guide for ensuring safety (as best as possible) for those who are learning or maybe lack the ability to make other judgments based on the circumstances.

Once you're an experienced driver, do you always push-and-pull the steering wheel? Always use your handbrake every time you stop briefly in traffic and at each stage of a three-point turn (turn in the road)? Do you pointedly scan all of your mirrors every two seconds? Do you religiously do all of your checks and indications to check it's safe before pulling back in after overtaking a tractor? Do you regularly do practice emergency stops?

In the same way we tell children to never speak to any adult stranger, but when older we learn to judge risk; and tell them never to cross on the red man, but when older, we do it ourselves when the road is completely clear - there are a lot of things where experience and increased wisdom allows you to make human judgments that might not be exactly the same as the blanket rules you follow when too young or inexperienced to be able to do so. I'm not excusing dangerous, careless or discourteous driving in any way.

Be honest: those who keep saying that you must adhere to the letter of the HC at all times - when did you last read it and have you completely memorised every section that ever applies to you? It's meant to be an essential guide for those who need it, not a stick to randomly beat others with.

I would also add (and some will disagree with me here) that I see the Highway Code as a basic lowest-common-denominator guide for ensuring safety (as best as possible) for those who are learning or maybe lack the ability to make other judgments based on the circumstances.

I’d like to see what happens if this stance is pulled with an insurance company.

If somebody flashes you, you don't have to pull out if you don't want to

However, stopping abruptly in smooth flowing traffic is also against the Highway Code.

Really? So if a child runs in front of your bonnet, adhering to the letter of the HC is more important than the child's life? Why are all learners taught how to do an emergency stop if it would always be illegal/dangerous for them to ever use it?

Random sudden stops may or may not be a sign of poor driving, depending on the circumstances, but it is never an excuse for the driver behind being too close/fast to safely stop. Good driving is defensive driving and if you assume that the driver in front might suddenly stop - the same as you assume that a child might run into the road when you pass a school - and drive accordingly yourself, it's a very wise way of preventing a lot of potential accidents.

At any rate, I don't recall the PP saying that the kind driver slammed their brakes on. In the vast majority of cases, drivers would slow down by lightly braking or easing off the accelerator and just regulate their driving to ensure that the pedestrian will have safely crossed and vacated that section of road before they arrive there.

Sometimes, you don't even need to slow down at all, but you're just re-assuring the mum with the pram that, when the decision isn't easy to call, if it should be the case that I would have got there before you have finished crossing, I will make the necessary adjustments to my speed to ensure your safety.

Stopping abruptly for no reason is not the same as an emergency stop!!

I’d like to see what happens if this stance is pulled with an insurance company.

Did you read the part where I said "I'm not excusing dangerous, careless or discourteous driving in any way." ?

I'm not saying that experienced drivers can simply ignore the HC - just that it is a theoretical prescriptive guide and it does not replace you, as an experienced driver who is there at the actual scene.

If you were sitting in your parked car at night and a lorry just in front started to reverse towards you at some speed, would you sit there with your arms folded and wait for the crash, because the HC says you must not use your horn whilst stationary, or would you do what everybody else would do and repeatedly bash down on the horn to alert the lorry driver? Interestingly, if you did choose the method that the HC disallows, there would be much less likelihood of an event occurring which necessitated an insurance claim in the first place.

To take a more extreme scenario, if you were in your car heading towards a cliff and your brakes and steering suddenly failed, would you try to jump out of the car ASAP? If you would, you would have broken not just the HC but also the law, as you would have been deliberately not wearing a seat belt in a moving vehicle. Do you think the police and insurers would seek to blame or prosecute you for removing your belt before the vehicle was stationary?

Stopping abruptly for no reason is not the same as an emergency stop!!

It depends on your definition of 'abruptly, though. Does anybody really think it's unexpected that a car travelling through traffic in a built-up area might stop with little or no warning? They can't have done much town driving if they do.