Trump thread #109 Election Part 3 and off he goes with a trumpety trump?

[freddosfrogs]

We can but hope!

What will happen in AZ, PA and GA next?

[Title edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

I can never really understand how the unions are perceived in the US? When I think unions in US I think Jimmy Hoffa. And that's about it! Bit dated for a start.

Agree trump looks like a lunatic but has not missed a chance at manipulating the levers of power.

I work in an area (supply chain) that used to be a unionised male blue collar preserve and from the 1970s on every decade conditions for workers have gotten worse and worse, what they can buy with their pay has eroded, the respect in their jobs has eroded. Taken over by technology and labour managed to within an inch of their lives.

I could see Corbyn at least understood that although I didn't think he had good enough solutions. Trump understands the disenfranchisement - I don't think he cares though, merely something to use.

Trump statement at 4.30 our time, Johnson presser at 5.
Is 4.15 too early to break out the alcohol?

@nauticant I'd say that being convinced that you'd rather "have a voice" than be better off is a sign of having been conned. Kind of epitomises the 'Take Back Control' thing - offering people a completely meaningless sense of empowerment in exchange for actively damaging their own economic interests. It's a con trick.

Biden holding well in Arizona. Its not narrowing there enough for Trump apparently according to DH.

Should be lean democrat as projected by some.

(Remember in Arizona Trump NEEDS the counting to continue because Biden is in the lead. If he's written off Arizona that the point he might start making trouble...)

@Jason118 how could I forget! Right you are 👍🏻

Decimal betting odds might be easier to understand for people who struggle with the fractional ones (I do and I dabble in sports trading!)

At the moment the Betfair Exchange has Biden at 1.17 and Trump at 6.6 - so if you bet £1 on Biden and he wins, you'd get £1.17 back and if you bet £1 on Trump and he wins, you'd get £6.60 back. So the lower the number, the more likely the outcome is.

This is the next president market:
www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/politics-betting-2378961

@RedToothBrush

Trump to make an annoucement in Las Vegas with Matt Schlapp.

Matt Schlapp was a senior figure in the Brooks Brothers Riot in Miami Dade in 2000.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot

The Brooks Brothers riot was a demonstration at a meeting of election canvassers in Miami-Dade County, Florida, on November 22, 2000, during a recount of votes made during the 2000 United States presidential election, with the goal of shutting down the recount.

^After demonstrations and acts of violence, local officials shut down the recount early.

Many of the demonstrators were paid Republican operatives. According to investigative reporter Greg Palast, author of The Best Democracy Money Can Buy in 2002, Roger Stone organized the demonstration, and Matt Schlapp was the on-site leader. Republican New York Representative John E. Sweeney gave the signal that started the riot, telling an aide to "Shut it down."

We are now looking at bordering on a potential coup-de-tat if this kicks off.

We already know that we are seeing armed people outside counting centres in neighbouring Arizona.

This is where the danger starts.

@RedToothBrush do you mean that Trump is going to Las Vegas to make the announcement?

But what if successive left wing parties have promised to improve things for you and they haven't? No wonder people fall back on values.

@Roussette

RedToothbrush sorry, I posted before updating the page.

So did I!

It's getting exciting again now they're all waking up!

Is Trump going to incite rioting?!

I thought Biden's not quite victory speech last night was very good, very Presidential, very inclusive.

@HoneysuckIejasmine

Is Trump going to incite rioting?!

Is the Pope Catholic?

[quote Phoenix21]@occa thank you.

At home we discussed this issue yesterday, one line of thought was the (current) right tends to have short sharp easy access rhetoric whereas the left is a bit more detailed and inclusive.

It takes time, patience and education to ‘think’ about what the left is saying.

For the U.K, the working men’s clubs and unions of old seemed to be more hands on with exploring policy/ideas with folk, WC people were more likely to be clever even if they didn’t have more formal education.

I see this in my own working class family where the older people have full critical thinking and knowledge. The younger folk (boomers) are a bit more slogan-y and accept what they read as fact.[/quote]
Wow!

What has really killed the realtionship between the working class and left wing political parties is the death of mass industries and the associated labour organisations.

Without these there is no longer any way to organise working class workers politically or engender a sense of class solidairty that would lead them to vote according to their collective interest as a class rather than based on their own narrow self-interest.

Trump's doctors getting to work with IV stimulants, a cattle prod and Kimberly Gilfoyles vibrating underwear

50000 votes left to count in Georgia. Down to the wire
Lewis Goodall

@derxa I’ve read that back and it looks like I’m saying WC people are stupid. I’m not at all, nor do I believe that.

Probably more of an access thing but I’ll shut up before I dig a bigger hole as I’m writing sloppily.

My apologies.

In a twitter, soundbite world, things sound easy.

People who say 'yes, but' get drowned out.

Just look at the recent tweet about soy sauce. It sounds so good to say that it will be cheaper. An easy tweet.

The actual effect, especially with much of it coming from Europe, is more complicated.

People - in general - are lazy thinkers. They use their 'Type 1' brain, go for the easy option and don't think critically.

That applies to people in general. It's why short messages work.

I've not posted before so apologies if this has been said. CNN's rolling coverage is really detailed and insightful and goes in full depth into the numbers and votes in the specific counties and cities still being counted.

OK, so maybe I'm wrong about the incitement to riot, @HoneysuckIejasmine. I've just seen this breaking news in The Independent:

"The Trump campaign is planning to sue in Nevada, alleging that 10,000 people voted in the state despite no longer living there, Fox News reported.

According to an announcement from the president’s team, Ric Grenell, the former acting Director of National Intelligence, will make the announcement at a press conference in Las Vegas at 8.30am, local time."

Interesting to read that Wikipedia account of the Brooks Brothers riot which says that many of the rioters were paid Republican operatives. Irrespective of Trump's many shortcomings, it seems that the Republican party has form for this kind of attack on the democratic process.

More about Georgia from Nate Silver

AJC is saying 51,000 untallied absentee ballots in Georgia, most "concentrated in highly populated areas, led by Fulton County in Atlanta and Chatham County in Savannah." Biden needs 18,500 to catch up, meaning he'd need to win them 68-32. Very doable.

Did Obama break the Unions? I thought they hadn't been in great shape since Reagan/Bush.

I always thought a lot of it was to do with the individual rather than the community - voting for what's best for you as an individual rather than looking at your whole community (though you may well believe it's better for your community if most people have jobs, regardless of job type/pay/how many jobs they need to survive).

It's interesting that Trumpism has managed to create a sense of voting Republican to protect your community against job losses rather than voting Democrat to improve your community's prospects.

An awful lot of everything is selling fear rather than hope, isn't it?

These people are going to come and take what you have unless you vote for us. They're going to tax you, they're going to regulate business so it's unprofitable, they're going to close business because it's bad for the environment, you're going to lose your job, they're going to force you to choose their healthcare, they're going to stop you from having a gun. They're going to let in more immigrants and then the immigrants will take your jobs, push up house prices/lower house prices. They're going to borrow too much money, big business/wealthy people will move away to pay less tax elsewhere, there won't be enough tax income left, the country will go broke. There won't be enough to pay for social security/Medicare/NHS. They'll raise wages and employers will move to cheaper countries, you'll be out of a job. You'll have to pay higher bills for green electricity.