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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if Biden has definitely won?

682 replies

bluewanda · 04/11/2020 19:20

He has, right? Joe Biden is the new POTUS!

OP posts:
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8
Sparklfairy · 05/11/2020 12:38

@Kljnmw3459

I really really don't understand why some places including Fox called it so early? No wonder Trump camp was fuming.
My first thought was simply the rush to be the 'first' to announce it. It's not like they can skew the vote via the media as the polls are all closed. Major fuck up in any case.

Biden is only 18k behind Trump for Georgia. If he snatches it then Trump cannot win even if he gets all the last states and manages to swipe Arizona too.

prh47bridge · 05/11/2020 12:40

@AngelicInnocent

Can one of you knowledgable types tell me what to make of the suggestions that if Biden wins he will only serve for a few months before stepping down for health reasons, making way for Kamala Harris.

How likely is this and what effect will it have?

Can't rule it out but personally I would class that as a conspiracy theory. Biden may well be a one term president due to his age but I don't think he'll step down within a few months. Trump is already accusing the Democrats of stealing the election. Imagine the anger from him and his supporters if Biden steps aside quickly to make way for someone who is, in US terms, an extreme left winger.
Kljnmw3459 · 05/11/2020 12:44

Georgia is interesting, I didn't expect such a narrow lead for Trump.

Tfoot75 · 05/11/2020 12:50

The Arizona thing is a bit weird. Could understand if there was only a city left to count, but there are a few counties not yet completed. The guardian (who use AP) have Biden only needing 6 more votes.

I think he will win Georgia and pennsylvania and then the recounts won't matter anyway? Waiting for it to get moving again, should Georgia be finishing soon?

Sparklfairy · 05/11/2020 12:55

@Tfoot75

Just found this posted a few minutes ago on ABC news:

"Georgia's Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, has told local news station WSB-TV the state has under 25,000 ballots left to be counted.

Mr Rafffensperger said Georgia should be done counting by noon today (local time). It's 7:51am there now."

Tfoot75 · 05/11/2020 12:59

Thanks, the map on the guardian shows that it's just one county in Atlanta left to report, where Biden has 83% of the vote. So I think likely he'll overturn the lead. Similar situation in Pennsylvania, there's lots of counties to report but the bulk of the uncounted votes are in Philadelphia where Biden is getting more than 75% of the vote. Plus if they are mail in its likely to be even more skewed.

Lurkingforawhile · 05/11/2020 13:02

Thanks @sprklfairy. Good to know some news will be with us in a few hours

Thymeout · 05/11/2020 13:14

Haven't read the whole thread, but I think it's difficult for us in the teeny weeny UK to understand how enormous the USA is. We see all the red and think that the Republicans are doing well, but most of the red is desert or prairie. Tumbleweed country. That little blue square in the corner of a state is where most people live.

e.g. Nevada. The overwhelming majority lives in Clarke County, Las Vegas and suburbs. That bit of blue in the NW is Reno, with the same demographic - a lot of Hispanics and min wage casino/hotel workers. But the rest is desert. The same applies to Arizona.

And when we hear that Trump is leading, and 98% of the vote has been counted, we don't realise that the last 2% may be hundreds of thousands of urban Biden voters because we're used to British numbers.

I don't think Biden will be stepping down any time soon. He's waited his whole life for this. Only 4 years since Obama. He's going to have thousands of experienced officials who lost their jobs in the US equivalent of the civil service, especially the State Dept. Trump didn't replace them because he wanted to govern on his own, like Boris and Cummings.

After all, he was Veep for 8 years. And the last person in the room when Obama had a decision to make. (Unlike Pence.)

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/11/2020 14:39

I think it's difficult for us in the teeny weeny UK to understand how enormous the USA is. We see all the red and think that the Republicans are doing well, but most of the red is desert or prairie. Tumbleweed country. That little blue square in the corner of a state is where most people live

I sort of see where you're coming from, but let's not forget that if those "blue cities" contained enough votes, many of the central states would never have gone to Trump. Except for the real desert states there are still plenty of people out there in the boondocks and it's that divide which worries me

sergeilavrov · 05/11/2020 14:49

So, finally got a brief nap but wanted to come back and see if I could clarify anything else.

@bluewanda and @Kljnmw3459 In terms of early calling, the only outlet not calling Arizona is ABC. ABC owns 538 (Nate Silver and the Gang) whose predictions under Obama saw them worshipped as some sort of predictive messiah. It’s worth noting they 538 have said they would call Arizona (despite saying they would have waited longer than Fox and AP to do so), but are dependent on the ABC decision desks.

Decision desks use a lot of in depth analysis at the district level, using political scientists and statisticians who are experts on sometimes even specific localities within states to call results. They called Arizona because of the specific districts votes haven’t been counted for yet. I think Arizona’s margins will narrow, but not enough to flip the state back. You can read more about how decision desks work by reading this piece by AP.

@angelicinnocent The more whispers there are of Biden stepping down a few months in, the less likely it is to happen. I think it’s unlikely anyway as it would harm the legitimacy of the Democratic Party, and could damage them in future elections. It would also reflect poorly on Kamala Harris, who would be seen as complicit - who I think, along with Mayor Pete and Yang - are ones to watch four years down the line. Only Nixon has ever resigned, due to Watergate, and that had significant implications for Ford who was seen as a bit of a lame duck. He was the only individual ever to serve as President without being elected as President of VP.

@sparklfairy and @Lurkingforawhile A clarification from Georgia is that they misspoke and actually have around 50,000 ballots left. Oh, the joys of election year. We anticipate update announcements from Nevada at midday, Arizona’s Mariscopa votes are 9pm (those will narrow the lead slightly but still two blue counties yet to report) and we are minutes away from getting an update from Philadelphia (They have about 160k votes to count, and Biden dominates 9 to 1).

AngelicInnocent · 05/11/2020 14:54

Thanks for the answers Smile

KenAdams · 05/11/2020 15:22

None of the AP vote percentages have changed from about 9am. What's going on?

WitchesSpelleas · 05/11/2020 15:23

@KenAdams

None of the AP vote percentages have changed from about 9am. What's going on?
I was putting it down to time-difference.
Dongdingdong · 05/11/2020 15:27

Georgia - get on with it FFS!

Quaagars · 05/11/2020 15:29

(Channels inner 5 year old)
Are we nearly there yet
lol

Kljnmw3459 · 05/11/2020 15:37

If there's no clear winner by 6pm uk time I'm just going to declare the rest of the states as they stand now and ignore the actual results. For the next 4 years.

Kljnmw3459 · 05/11/2020 15:38

I'm starting to come round to Trumpian thinking: just stop counting now lol

AmICrazyorWhat2 · 05/11/2020 16:08

@Kljnmw3459. Please no, yesterday we had peaceful demonstrations where I live in support of “counting every vote” (which I agree with). There’ll be full-scale riots if that doesn’t happen.

Kljnmw3459 · 05/11/2020 16:16

@amicrazyorwhat2 understandable. But my god it's a snail race.

prh47bridge · 05/11/2020 16:27

If Biden wins Pennsylvania he has won. If he doesn't win Pennsylvania, he needs any two from Arizona, Georgia and Nevada.

Trump will almost certainly get Alaska and North Carolina. To win, he also needs Pennsylvania and any two from Arizona, Georgia and Nevada.

Biden's path to victory is therefore much easier than Trump's but a Trump victory is still possible.

AmICrazyorWhat2 · 05/11/2020 16:32

Definitely and I can’t understand why some states didn’t plan better- it was so obvious that there’d be tons of mail-in ballots to process.

GrimDamnFanjo · 05/11/2020 16:35

Honestly, the US need sports halls or civic centres, a load of spiritedly university students and some friendly state rivalry for the Guinness Book of Records titles.
That would get those ballots counted a bit quicker!

Dongdingdong · 05/11/2020 16:43

Trump's margin in Georgia now down to 15k according to Sky News. But I'm not sure how many votes are left to be counted.

WitchesSpelleas · 05/11/2020 16:46

Vote counting halted in Philadelphia while Democrats try to reverse court ruling that Republicans can go in and watch (Sky)

HoldMyLobster · 05/11/2020 17:13

@AmICrazyorWhat2

Definitely and I can’t understand why some states didn’t plan better- it was so obvious that there’d be tons of mail-in ballots to process.
This was a specific tactic by Republicans to slow down the voting, in the hopes that they could then stall enough for Trump to claim victory.

They could have planned better but they weren't allowed to.