To be worried my daughter is never going to progress

[Noplans2020]

Had the first parents evening tonight of year one. DD is five and only did half of reception due to covid! She has also isolated for two weeks so only did five weeks of this term. So missed a quarter of this term.

In reception both parents evenings were about her struggling to understand instructions such as go to your peg etc. She needed alot of guidance. But the second parents evening was a little improved. They also said she just wasn't quite ready for the work side of it. I got her hearing and eyes tested ten months ago as requested by the school. All was fine.

So over lockdown I've taught her to write different size words and read up to four letter words. She's writing beautifully at home. Great at lists. Always drawing. Able to write some words now with no guidance. Also her behaviour and stuff is so much better. She takes herself to bed now when it's time. She listens and behaves. She's helpful. She is really independent. Caring. Really interested in learning. She loves one on one for learning.

Teacher calls tonight. Says she finds someone to play with everyday and is happy. She said that's all they can ask for at this point. She then asked if we had any concerns. I asked how she was doing as she had support last year and was struggling abit with certain parts. Then the teacher spent the final 7 minutes of the chat focused on the same things as her last teacher. Is it her hearing? Do we have concerns at home? Apparently if she asks her to go to her tray she doesn't do it straight away. It's like she doesn't grasp it apparently still. Also when she's asked to copy of the board she will do her own thing. She sent me a piece of work and apparently wanted to show me because it was very creative. It was a whole page of letters and no obvious words. She then said she was supposed to copy three little sentances of the board but did that instead. She said she wasn't sure how to help her understand but said she would keep an eye and write anything in the book if she's concerned and wants to discuss it.

Anyway. Third parents evening. Same problems. No better a year on.

I've done everything I can. As far as I knew she was able to do these things. I'm always writing words for her to copy. Always doing work with her at home. I read with her. She has a tablet with learning games. She writes, colours, cuts and paints at home.

I just don't know why she can't follow what she needs to be doing?

I'm worried she's just not ready for the environment. Yet she loves going.

Any advice?

Op your absolutely right to be concerned.
Maybe she will pick up but maybe she won't and early interventions are critical.

It could be any numbers of issues, maybe even apd? Her hearing maybe OK but apd is brain issue so she may be able to hear but not transit the sounds properly?.. Stuff like this needs looking into.. Good luck! Half the battle is having a parent who picks this up.

Not all children are hard wired to be people pleasers. Some are more creative and independent thinkers.

😁 Yep this describes my DD. No processing issues, just bloody minded!

I agree with all the others saying that it's too young to start worrying about all of this. Teachers are given a generic set of guidelines for children to fit in with, and to be honest, it sounds to me like they were trying to avoid focussing on that during the feedback sessions, probably because they aren't worried about it.

If they're saying the same thing to you in a couple of years, I would take it more seriously.

Mum of SEN kids here. If the teachers are repeatedly flagging things, get a speech and language assessment under way. It sounds VERY process/inattentive type behaviour. Knowledge is power.

It might be a processing order but it could be nothing. I'd follow it up though if the teachers have raised it.
She sounds like a delight and I wouldnt be too worried though as she's obviously bright and happy going to school. At her age that is the most important thing.

Morning! I've read through your posts thank you.

I'll email the teacher today and ask for more details and a plan of action. I'll ask her if she's the only child struggling like this and if it's concerning her significantly.

It wasn't a special phone call for me. It was parents evening. But it was over the zoom app thing.

@minipie

Not all children are hard wired to be people pleasers. Some are more creative and independent thinkers.

😁 Yep this describes my DD. No processing issues, just bloody minded!

Describes how mine was, never rude but had his own mind from an early age. I think it is a good thing.

P.s she's very able to write and getting quite good at reading. I know she gets anxious because she won't speak to my parents and my partner's parents face to face. I have spoken to the gp and they are not concerned as she speaks in many settings. But that's a whole other story!

Thanks again for all your replies.

One thing that’s worth stating to any parent who might be questioning whether their child is ‘different’ ... whether they are or they are not is immaterial; they are the same wonderful child that they have always been. Assessment of any kind is more about knowing whether the standard educational package/provision is right for them, or whether they might need a bit more help and support in certain areas. My own child is very bright, very funny, very serious, and very engaging. He has a hunger for knowledge and is well liked by his peers and adults. But, he has some issues around anger and anxiety which are a little bit more than might be expected for a child his age. Because we know about it, we have an explanation for certain behaviours, and strategies for coping, and at the moment he is doing excellently. And at the end of the day that’s all any of this is about, allowing them to be the best version of themselves and embracing who they really are.

@Flamingolingo

I needed to read that today so thank you. I feel sad that she stands out so negatively. She is so bright and kind. I think she's just not ready for learning at a desk all day. They don't even go in the hall for lunch now. So I think she is in the class too much for her personality. She loves the outdoors and art. She's very creative. So I think that's where her problems are coming from.

I just hope she can adapt.

I hear you. Whenever you look at assessment for a child, it’s always stated in very stark terms. I personally hate reading my son’s letters because they only focus on his problems. But that is because it needs to be - you can only get help for problems and not all the wonderful things they do.

I know she gets anxious because she won't speak to my parents and my partner's parents face to face. I have spoken to the gp and they are not concerned as she speaks in many settings. But that's a whole other story!

Anxiety too? It’s little thing like this which add up and start to build a bigger picture, eventually. I’m not surprised your GP wasn’t interested but actually, being mute around grandparents isn’t normal.

By all means mention the whole other story here if you think it might help!

My advice is write down all of these things about her that are “different” - doesn’t matter how big or small. Once you see it all written down you start to realise that maybe this isn’t all in your head and there’s something going on, maybe some sort of neurodivergence.

She's FIVE for heaven's sake. Kids develop at differerent ages and in different ways, it's very young to be worrying about formal learning. As long as she's well adjusted and happy at school, that's all that matters. Sounds like she's fine at home.

If you were up here in Scotland she would only have started school this year and there would be no talk of having to write full words yet, let alone sentences.

Haworthia My advice is write down all of these things about her that are “different” - doesn’t matter how big or small. Once you see it all written down you start to realise that maybe this isn’t all in your head and there’s something going on, maybe some sort of neurodivergence.

Agree. Write it down. Then do some internet browsing on the conditions people have suggested here: aural processing, ADHD, dyspraxia, dyslexia. Something might 'jump out' at you and give you a starting point.

But also please just speak to your DD about how she feels she gets on at school . She might well tell you 'I find it hard when the classroom is noisy' or 'when I am copying off the board I can't hold the words in my head' or 'when copying off the board I find it hard to know where to go back to when I look up again' or whatever. She won't know to mention stuff because she will assume it is 'normal'.

Wait lists will no doubt be longer than usual due to Covid delays, so better to get onto a list for assessment if needed sooner rather than later. If by the time she gets to the top of a list the situation has resolved and it was her just being a bit young, then super, you haven't lost anything.

it's very young to be worrying about formal learning

The concern the teachers have expressed are NOT to do with formal learning, they are about her ability to understand and follow instructions which is an essential skill.

To understand what it is about instructions that the child is not picking up at the same rate as her peers, she needs an assessment which will identify any problems and provide solutions for them.

That school is fantastic, they have spotted this early and are willing to help the child. Many schools don't do that so the OP is in a very good position here, first of all to have a possible problem flagged and secondly to deal with a school who will be willing to support that child.

I was chatting to my mum about my school reports from when I was a child on the back of this thread, as I had a very late (mid 30s) diagnosis for inattentive ADHD, and a lot of what you've written is similar to what my mum said I was like. I was very different in a school setting and at home. I was regularly tested for hearing problems but I know it's picking out one noise among many that's the real issue.

You've had some great suggestions for possible avenues of investigation in case she needs extra help in the future, but it sounds like she's happy at the moment so it sounds like there's no cause for alarm. Despite a late diagnosis, I have managed fine, I got good qualifications, I like my job, I'm generally pretty happy!

My thoughts were it could be a processing issue.

I then thought I had better about my DDs NHS hearing test experience. She was aged 2.5, 3, 3.5 when she passed them all with flying colours.

Had her tested privately and she was near being hearing impaired in one ear and close in the other. The bar for hearing impairment being recognised seems very high!!

Young children should have exceptionally good hearing although I would hope at 4/5 the test would be more accurate than a younger one.

Also NHS hearing tests don't have any background noise going... if you have auditory processing issues then in school it would be so much more difficult than home.

My DD had a distorted hearing curve and it was auditory processing issues. Thankfully I paid for Johansen Therapy and she developed near perfect hearing as a result.

Processing.

Ask GP for referral for ASD assessment. I say this not to panic you but, I think your daughter presents with some ASD traits and you may wait for diagnosis for some time, in the present climate.

My son was diagnosed with asd at age 4 but it’s “different for boys”. I was an adult when diagnosed with Aspergers.

I’m glad your daughter is enjoying primary school. It may become harder for her heading toward secondary.

And what I mean by “processing” is that on a one to one basis/one instruction at a time, at home, possibly without other sensory distractions/kids/noise/activity your daughter is able to process more clearly. The fact that she is struggling to understand simple instructions in the classroom environment speaks volumes.

When is her birthday OP? There is a lot of child development research and evidence that some kids simply aren't ready for formal learning environment before aged about 7. My August born DD was the same as yours, if a bit more disruptive than yours. I really felt she just wasn't ready. 12 months is the average age for learning to walk but the range is 9-18 months. Same with talking, potty training, sleeping through the night. Why do we expect all children to be ready for formal learning by age 4? Especially when some of the children in the class will be 9 months older than others. My dd struggled with following instructions in reception, but showed improvement. Year 1 was awful, she just needed to play! There were no toys at all in her year 1 classroom and she wasn't ready for all day table work. School were gathering evidence for an EHCP at one point for my dd, and she has a speech and language assesment and eye test. Still waiting for a hearing test 2 years on, just had another postponed appointment letter . But she made huge improvements in the second half of year 2, and is still steadily improving. So far she is getting on really well in year 3. Her report was the best she's had yet. The most important thing through it all for us though, was like your DD mine was happy to go into school and actually loved it. She didn't care or notice that she was the least able.

It's not about her learning or achievement it's the not being able to easily follow a simple instruction.

I've caught up and read she gets anxious and does sound like she could be getting very absorbed in her own thoughts.

I would be pushing the school as whether they support her needing to be assessed as waiting lists are long...

@Haworthia

It does sound like it could be a processing or concentration issue. My daughter is 9 and I’ve only just realised that she’s like this. Every thing I say to her elicits a “what?” response? It’s not that she can’t hear, she doesn’t even need me to repeat myself, she just needs extra time to process what is said.

But like everyone says, she’s only 5 and she hasn’t even had much schooling compared with a normal year.

If school offer any help (SALT input etc) then take it, but equally I wouldn’t stress too much about it.

I do the "what?" response all the time. DH has stopped repeating himself because he knows I'll respond a few seconds later. It's like my brain just needs a while to process the question.

I'm academically intelligent (currently doing a PhD) but I have Aspergers and really struggle with verbal instruction. If someone gives me directions or a list of tasks I will forget them by the time they've finished speaking. I mitigate this by making hundreds of lists and keeping notes in my phone because I need to be able to refer back to them.

As pp have said, the teacher is telling you that there is something not quite right for her age so it's worth pursuing while she's so young. I was an adult when I first spoke to someone about a potential diagnosis after spending my teen years feeling like an alien beamed onto Earth.

I do wonder about the thought processes of the posters who say “you’ve got nothing to worry about, she sounds like a normal five year old”. Have they actually realised that the teacher will have close personal experience of literally hundreds of five year olds? It’s not the opinion of some random childless person on the Sainsbury’s checkout, or even your mum who’s forgotten what kids are like at various ages.

Seriously, the teacher knows what the normal range of behaviours for a five year old is, and they think that the OP’s child is a little bit outside that, to an extent which is worth investigating. So it probably is worth investigating, but your DD sounds adorable and well supported, so whatever it is I’m sure you’ll cope together.

I do wonder about the thought processes of the posters who say “you’ve got nothing to worry about, she sounds like a normal five year old”

On the many threads there are like this on the main boards, it's a typical response from parents of NT kids (and sadly usually most friends and family).

They don't want to even consider that a child may be neurodiverse, they have no experience of a child being unable to process information the "proper" way when given an instruction, so they will minimise and "reassure" the OP that the teacher must be wrong in her observations.

I'm sure they think they are being helpful, but nothing can be any worse in the case of a child who is struggling than the parents being dissuaded from getting professional help. Early intervention really does work, the later it's left the more difficult it is for the child in the intervening period.

@Nailgirl you nailed the reply.

My DS can't do "can you? " He is a very sweet, sensitive, quiet child and gets upset by shouting, but you have to be forceful when giving instructions or he thinks it's an optional thing. "Coat on peg now" works. Maybe this situation has a name and I should get him assessed. He has suffered a speech delay (slow to start talking and developing words) but has really improved, but is still shy and his speech is immature.