To be worried my daughter is never going to progress

[Noplans2020]

Had the first parents evening tonight of year one. DD is five and only did half of reception due to covid! She has also isolated for two weeks so only did five weeks of this term. So missed a quarter of this term.

In reception both parents evenings were about her struggling to understand instructions such as go to your peg etc. She needed alot of guidance. But the second parents evening was a little improved. They also said she just wasn't quite ready for the work side of it. I got her hearing and eyes tested ten months ago as requested by the school. All was fine.

So over lockdown I've taught her to write different size words and read up to four letter words. She's writing beautifully at home. Great at lists. Always drawing. Able to write some words now with no guidance. Also her behaviour and stuff is so much better. She takes herself to bed now when it's time. She listens and behaves. She's helpful. She is really independent. Caring. Really interested in learning. She loves one on one for learning.

Teacher calls tonight. Says she finds someone to play with everyday and is happy. She said that's all they can ask for at this point. She then asked if we had any concerns. I asked how she was doing as she had support last year and was struggling abit with certain parts. Then the teacher spent the final 7 minutes of the chat focused on the same things as her last teacher. Is it her hearing? Do we have concerns at home? Apparently if she asks her to go to her tray she doesn't do it straight away. It's like she doesn't grasp it apparently still. Also when she's asked to copy of the board she will do her own thing. She sent me a piece of work and apparently wanted to show me because it was very creative. It was a whole page of letters and no obvious words. She then said she was supposed to copy three little sentances of the board but did that instead. She said she wasn't sure how to help her understand but said she would keep an eye and write anything in the book if she's concerned and wants to discuss it.

Anyway. Third parents evening. Same problems. No better a year on.

I've done everything I can. As far as I knew she was able to do these things. I'm always writing words for her to copy. Always doing work with her at home. I read with her. She has a tablet with learning games. She writes, colours, cuts and paints at home.

I just don't know why she can't follow what she needs to be doing?

I'm worried she's just not ready for the environment. Yet she loves going.

Any advice?

I absolutely agree that a SALT referral would be a good idea. It could be all manner of things - a receptive language issue, an auditory processing issue (the classroom is busier /noisier than home and she may struggle to process what she’s hearing), etc. If school are saying they have concerns then I would listen.

How is her understanding at home? If you give her a multi part instruction that’s something she doesn’t normally do or can’t guess, can she follow it?

The school could try things like visual timetables, now and next boards etc to support her understanding of spoken words and see if that helps.

My twins are both autistic, non verbal and very delayed and I am terrified about whether they will ever learn To talk or understand words. The fact that it’s so severe made it easy for us to get a diagnosis, but those with less obvious issues can really struggle for those issues to be picked up. I would take as much professional input as you can get - I know too many parents where the school completely dismisses that there’s an issue, so it’s great they are aware and paying attention. Doesn’t mean there’s a problem but she may need some extra support.

She's five not 15 I really do think some childcare professionals expect too much.
Health visitors tell you to take the bottle away at 1 years old. (They are babies for god sake) if the kids a chance. X

How is she at following instruction at home ?
It could be that the classroom environment is just incredibly distracting for her and she finds it more difficult to focus with so much going on.

I agree with pp that copying sentences is a bit dull, at any age imo.
If that’s what the teacher wants them to do then she might benefit from having a white board next to her rather than copying from a big white board.
It’s not uncommon for young children to forget what they’ve seen on the board at the other side of the room by the time they attempt to write it.
I’m sure you dd teachers have thought of that but I would be having a look at what she can do at home just to see if there is a difference.

It sounds like an auditory processing issue, please don't put any pressure on her though that won't help and is likely to make it worse.

@unlimiteddilutingjuice

She sounds very similar to my 8 year old who is awaiting assesment for inattentive ADHD. He works well one to one in the quiet environment of home. And he can hyper focus on things he's interested in. Reliably maintaining focus and following instructions at school is a huge poblem though.

Ditto - also have an 8yo awaiting assessment for something like this. When he was in Year One he had some similar issues but his teacher mostly waved it away with 'Reception to Year One is a huge step' and 'We often find that our younger boys struggle with these things' every time I asked whether there was something to investigate.

I would say it is definitely worth looking into potential issues. DS struggled with the noisy, busy classroom environment and is easily distracted. Now in Year Four, they have found that him having step by step instructions to keep track of and a 'job list' have done wonders for him in class (he's bright and loves learning so that was never the issue).

slow processing speed
Hmm - there is only the 2 of you at home no distraction -classes are noisy places & if your dc is easily distracted or finds it hard to concentrate with everything going on I can see this happening quite easily. The thing with slow processing is that it can be co-morbid with other issues - pragmatic language-possibly?
I would want an assessment with speech therapist (if you can afford it privately it is so worth it, its almost impossible to get this on the NHS especially, I imagine, at the moment) Speech Therapists can diagnose a lot of things that many GP 's can't (says she with feeling! It was a speech therapists who suggested to me that dc had asd - she was right - I had been trying to establish something else was wrong & dd had been under Child Development for over 5 years - through 2 doctors!)

Ask if you can have a chat with the Senco.
Classrooms are busy, noisy environments - if she's feeling a bit overloaded she might just need a little bit of extra direction - ask them if they are using short 2 step named instructions. Ask them if they are giving her time to process. If they need to repeat the instructions then they must be verbatim (less to process). Etc. Maybe she needs a more detailed visual timetable.
There are loads of ways they can support her. Don't worry, if she's enjoying herself whilst there that is the biggest hurdle.

Another one thinking processing delay here. Don't let them fob you off by saying that her reading and handwriting is fine (if that's the case) - DD is severely dyslexic, but processing delay is her only real issue.

@TeenPlusTwenties

It could be a processing issue or a concentration issue.

So it doesn't show up at home in a nice quiet environment with just you 1-1, but when put in an over-stimulating classroom of 30 she can't focus properly or process what is being asked.

Have a look at dyspraxia just in case, she sounds a bit like my eldest might have been at that age.

Have you asked your DD? Have you said that Miss sometimes thinks she doesn't understand instructions and see what your DD says about it?

This.

My daughter has sensory processing issues, she is better off with a quite environment and needs movement to learn.

Try writing with sand. Get a tray and put sand on it and get her to write on the sand.

But don't get hung up on it. Every child learns in their own way. If the school is concerned ask them whether she can be seen by the senco.

Could she be overwhelmed at school? Too much going on around her for her to concentrate? Some of the things you say she is struggling with with are traits of ASD but it may be that there are too many things like noise, other pupils moving around, displays on classroom walls, uncomfortable clothes etc for her to focus on work or what she is supposed to be doing. Keep on with what you are doing at home for a bit longer but if there is no improvement, speak to the SENCO & ask for a speech & language therapist to come & assess her. They will do an observation of her in class & also a one to one to assess her language & observation skills, if they think there is a problem they will then refer her to an educational psychologist to assess for any learning disability.

I would strongly, strongly urge you to get your daughter's hearing checked for starters. Classrooms are noisy places so even a little bit of hearing loss (say from glue ear) can be a problem that you wouldnt necessarily pick up at home. Then I'd get her eyes tested

Not being funny but read the thread - she did both nearly a year ago.

Have they tried visuals for her?
You/they say she is very creative, does she do a lot of imaginative play/role play when at home. Perhaps she had a strong inner narrative and is becoming immersed in play, in her mind. She knows she had to sit at a table, but the impulse to play is so strong she plays it out in her mind alone. It is not uncommon. At home she is probably appearing up progress more as you can be more direct, cutting out the time she would normally drift off into her own world.

Another one thinking an auditory processing issue.

My DS had this reception and p1... I really worried. His speech was slightly slow as well. Not so as you’d notice if you didn’t know him but I could tell. He had a slight speech impediment which he still has.

I pushed for SLT input and w eras a brilliant speech therapist.

He just couldn’t cope in the very noisy school environment.

We worked hard with him all the way through primary and up to age 13.

He’s 30 now and graduated and in a responsible job.

And has a partner. Coz I worried about that too. That no one would want him.

Sounds abit like my son. Can she following instruction? My son can not focus in class, nor follow instruction. This is not something you can easily spot when you have one to one with them.

She is only 5, may be that's why school is not overly concern about it.

It’s so hard when parents feel like this. On the one hand she’s only little but in the other it’s so difficult not to worry. I’m just empathising OP and I sometimes feel the expectation is too high for young kids

It does sound like processing which will be exacerbated in a busier environment or at times of stress. Have you spoken to the SENCO yet? If not I'd suggest that as your next step

We had this with my son. Turned out he was dyspraxic. People were so, so negative about him. When he was six we were told just to buy him a shovel and hope there’d be a field to dig. He’s in his first year at uni now.

Tbh she sounds exactly like when I was that a kid. All kids are different. Maybe you could practice giving her instructions at home like putting her shoes away, to see if something about it is confusing her 🤷🏻‍♀️ It could be something silly, I was always off with the fairies tbh.

I could have written this about both my daughters.

Both have ADHD (inattentive type) and ASD.

They really just live in their own bubbles, pop out every now and again to interact and then back in.

Speak to the SENCO, see if they can make a referral to Paediatrics.

She's only 5, and they've missed a lot of schooling. Try not to worry.

One thing I've thought of - when she's asked to do things in class, is it usually as part of a group? I know some children with certain issues don't understand that they are part of a group, so when all are instructed to 'Everyone copy what's on the board' etc... they genuinely don't understand that that includes them. My school has adapted for my friend's child (who has diagnosed ASD) by always making a separate instruction, i.e. "Can everyone get into line, Jennifer please get into line".

I'd "teach" her myself and see if you get the same result or not. Eg Get a white board -write

The cat sat.

The cat on the mat.

In large letters, give her a pencil and paper and say - "Can you copy those sentences on your paper"

And watch her.

Does she copy them?
How long does it take her?

Then say -can you go to your tray -give her a tray -and put this piece of paper in. Does she do as she is asked?

Go to your peg and get me your coat etc and see what happens.

Could be intructions, worry, anxiousness, an SEN or any number of things -but I'd start there.

Child 1 was a madam the teacher would say "put this in your tray Fitz" and he would stand and take 15 minutes to do it.

When another teacher asked him "can you put it in your tray?" he said Yes.
But didn't.

The questions was "can I?" -yes, I can he replied when asked.

I think you need to try doing some things and see if she responds like in class or not when in the home envioronment.

I’m in Year one - you have just described about two thirds of the class. They are five and in a dream world - they really need instruction at that point and the older range in the class are more closer to independent learning. Honestly doesn’t sound like anything to worry about to me - the grading is high in our schools.

Please don't dismiss it as "she's young, she's only 5". It really can be unhelpful in the long term.

What the teacher is telling you is that she is not performing as the other children are. It's irrelevant that children aren't at school in other countries. What is relevant is that the teacher is noticing that she isn't getting what most of the children her age have understood.

This may not be an issue. It may be that she's young, and will grow into it. It does happen.

But if it doesn't, the years where you have said "she'll be okay when she's older" will be lost. If she needs help, extra intervention, surely it's better to get it now, and if she doesn't need it, all well and good. But if she does need it, this time will be invaluable.

Go back, tell the teacher you are worried. Ask what can be put in place to help her. Ask if someone can come and assess her for extra support. Ask what you can do. If the teacher says "she'll grow into it" ask how you together can support her to do that, and what the next step is if she doesn't.

If she loves going that's great. You want her to continue loving going and not be the one that feels they're always one step behind.

The other thing is when did you have her hearing tested? Because if it was summer, I might request again, because it can fluctuate. Ds had severe glue ear. He tested at 10% of normal hearing through the winter. June through to August he tested as normal, even quite good hearing. Glue ear can be that variable,

Don’t worry about it, it’s very early days. As you say she’s missed 6 months of reception and 2 weeks of year 1. In my DCs years, almost every child is behind in most things, there is literally 1 child who has progressed since the start of lockdown, both parents are educators so it was no surprise. My DCs completely forgot a lot that they had learned and we’ve had to go over lots of stuff they did last year, they are yr2 & 4. The school is just focussing on getting all the kids back up to where they should have been at the end of last year before moving on.

I’ve taught EYFS and KS1 and a lot of Year 1s will be able to copy words (with varying levels of neatness) unless they struggle with letter formation and reading. Is your DD a good reader? Could it be that she can’t see the board properly and could do with wearing glasses? Also, would she benefit from having her ears tested if she struggles to follow verbal instructions? I wouldn’t rush to have her diagnosed as SEN. Children develop at different rates!