Would this be career suicide?

[CarinaMarina]

Is it a terrible idea to join a company with a generally poor reputation, even as part of a "fix it" or rescue team?

It has plenty of capital, plenty of backing, and tons of scope to develop and expand - but it has such an unfashionable and vilified business proposition, that even though it is highly profitable and will continue to be, it has a bad reputation in the industry (one which is, very luckily, unaffected by Covid as all comms and sales can be done remotely and will be for the foreseeable).

The bosses at my current firm will either fall about laughing or tell me I'm making a huge mistake if I tell them I'm going there. Part of the role will, however, be about adapting the proposition and turning it all around - at least they are committed to change.

Not sure if it's common sense or my ego making me hesitate. I do realise I am very fortunate to be in this position when so many people are suffering from the effects of the pandemic on jobs, that fact is not lost on me. I am lucky to be in a sector which can continue virtually as normal, thanks to technology.

Bump?

It's hard to tell exactly what you are looking at, but there's a reason why companies have a terrible reputation and it's not because they are 'a bit difficult' - it's because there is something fundamentally wrong - often a poisonous culture or an egomaniac leader.

It sounds like they are offering serious money, which isn't a bad reason to take a tough job. But go in with your eyes open and accepting that your life will be difficult. The money is probably there to buy the acquiescence of reasonable people in unpleasant dealings.

Job security would be top of mind for me at the moment. I think you need to find out exactly how open and willing to change this organisation is. Will your ideas be really welcomed or will there be some old guard stuck in their ways leaders being obstructive? Will you have full scope to implement your ideas? It sounds like an interesting and challenging role if you will not have your hands tied in any way, but my worry would potentially be that you go in, try to make radical changes, ruffle feathers and perhaps not last the distance due to not being a good fit. I wonder why they have not moved with the times already? If you are confident they are receptive to a big change and you have met the Senior Mgmt and feel the culture is one you can see yourself in, and you feel sure the role will not be too risky, then go for it. I have worked on projects where I have turned things around and it has been very rewarding and looks great on my CV when I can tally the good results with my period of service.

Do they or you have a plan and do you have assurances they will back you to make the necessary changes? I agree with pp, is there impossibility people there.

For me it would be how willing the top management are to change and I mean REALLY, not just say they are.
Do they recognise there is a fundamental issue or do they think they can stick a plaster on and all will be fine?

Impossible

In what way is the reputation terrible?

If, for example, it has a culture of long hours and overworking staff they really want to change then I’d consider it.

If the actual organisation is toxic or its values were completely opposite mine then I wouldn’t.

Could you give a bit more detail?

I think it could be quite exciting, being part of a team brought in to transform things. Think of the satisfaction you'd get if you see things through and turn the reputation around!

It would, however, be pretty shit for quite a while. We don't know what your role is, but you'd have a load of the 'old school' who would need to be encouraged to move on, there would be massive change, it would be tough. But that appeals to some people!

I doubt it would be career suicide, but might be a massive career boost in the long term...

I got talked into joining a different department in a company as I had the right skills to help turn it around. I objected as I knew the reputation but no was promised they were absolutely committed to change. I should have trusted my instincts, they were committed to looking like they wanted to change, not actually changing. I’d handed my notice in within 3 months the culture was as horrific as I expected, do your due diligence much more effectively than I did!

I suppose it depends on your own acceptable level of risk and what you find interesting.

I spent the better part of a decade working as a consultant in a change management field, and I loved turning organisations around, but I am a) a bit of an adrenaline junkie and b) had the 'security', as a self-employed consultant, of being able to move on.

I should also add that I didn't always get it right 100% of the time, but to me, that was an acceptable part of the risk and was set up financially in terms of savings, private pension etc, to be able to afford to do so.

However, when it does go well, it is massively rewarding, professionally and financially.

It depends. I do like going in and fixing things, but only if the relevant team is interested in being fixed.

I guess if the interview process went well, I'd ask to set up some informal meetings with the junior staff, and I'd base my final decision on how resistant they were to me coming in and shaking things up. I wouldn't base a decision just on chats with management.

Is it a cigarette brand or something along those lines?

Sorry. I've just read this again and nkticed this bit:

'an unfashionable and vilified business proposition'

What does this mean? Is it an online gambling site or similar? If you're joining a company to change the culture, people, leadership, vaues etc that's one thing...but joining a company which will always be morally dubious (gambling, tobacco, alcohol) is another thibg entirely....

It depends what they have a bad reputation for. It also depends how committed they are to change. I was brought in to work in a new way, change the reputation to one more environmentally conscious. All our social media is about how environmentally conscious we are but the reality is that I’ve had to battle the entire time I’ve been there. Every decision is challenged. Management isn’t committed to the change, this has all been brought about by external forces and customers. I’ve faced outright hostility from management and it’s made the job harder than it needs to be. It’s contributed to feelings of being done with my field.

Is it something like a loan shark company? A friend of mine got a job offer from Wonga when it was still around- the pay was great and it would have meant a promotion. But I don’t think you can recover from a career step like that. Organisations with a longstanding bad reputation evoke strong emotions in a lot of people - and if you work there your future interviewers may associate you with the negative feelings they have for the organisation.

My friend didn’t take the Wonga job - and to be honest I would have judged her if she had.

is the role you are contemplating top management - actually in a position to make change? That would be the key for me. I have been happy to be the change driver, but you can't do that from the bottom or the middle. It has to come all the way down!

Depends whether you believe in the proposition and why. Tobacco and gambling will always leave some ‘mark’ on your CV, IMO.

My money is on Sports Direct (now called Frasers) and its legendary difficult founder.

I’d work at a company with a bad reputation. 100%. Who really cares? Especially as part of a turnaround team.

I never look askance at anybody’s CV if they work in such a business. I just think, can they do the job and are they technically and commercially savvy?

Depends on what the issue is and what resources you will actually have plus also senior managements willingness to change root and branch.
Is the person instigating the change also likely to up sticks?
Have they tried before and failed too?
How secure is your current job ? Changing culture is very difficult even with resource because it is behavioural. Also depends on the rest of your circumstances.

If I guessed right with Sports Direct (whose auditors resigned in 2019 because their accounts were in such a mess) and it’s a senior finance job, seriously, jump on it. That is a once in a lifetime career opportunity.

Tobacco? Arms? Oil?

Agree with others - it depends on if you really believe management want to change or are just doing it for PR. Could be an amazing move if you manage to switch their strategy away from the “bad” proposition and actually higher impact than someone who goes to work for a fluffy trendy NGO for example, but I’d say really think through now how you’d like to sell it to someone in a job interview. I have a similar “untrendy” industry in my past and struggle to move on from it a bit but that’s because I’ve actually moved into a polar opposite industry (think cancer prevention/peacekeeping/climate change vs the above examples).

Will you be in a position to actually force change, or will your recommendations be listened to and ignored?

Vaping company- fine
Sports Direct- fine

Arms manufacturer- one of the biggest employers in the country, not for me, but obviously is for tens of thousands.

Tobacco company- nope
Online gambling company-nope

If it's anything to do with MLM then a big fat NOPE

It depends a bit. I build my career on working for the “undesirables”, and what I learned is that they are much better employers and much more ethical than the “goody goody” companies... Never judge a book by its cover (or a company by its reputation).